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 Potger Pietri by Invicta - Swiss Made?

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PostSubject: Potger Pietri by Invicta - Swiss Made?   Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:25 pm

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I have read in recent posts elsewhere that Swiss Made Invicta watches were probably made in the Potger Pietri factory or S. Coifman factory. curiosity got the better of me I am afraid so I wrote to someone I know who is a member of the Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry FH and better yet, a member of their legal department.....

His response..........


Dear Alain,




As you may know, Swiss law (Swiss federal Ordinance governing the use of the name "Swiss" or "Switzerland" for watches; please see enclosure) gives the criteria which must be met for a watch to be considered as Swiss and to be allowed to bear Swiss indications.



According to Article 3 of this Ordinance, "the name "Switzerland", indications such as "Swiss", "Swiss product", "manufactured in Switzerland", "Swiss quality" or other appellations which contain the name "Swiss" or "Switzerland" or which may be confused therewith may be used solely for Swiss watches or Swiss watch movements".



Article 1a of the Ordinance states that a watch may be considered as Swiss if, and only if it fulfills the following minimum criteria:

1. Its movement is Swiss; 2. its movement is cased up in Switzerland, and 3. the manufacturer carries out the final inspection in Switzerland.



Furthermore, Article 2 of the Ordinance defines the Swiss watch movement as the movement which: 1. has been assembled in Switzerland, and; 2. has been inspected by the manufacturer in Switzerland, and; 3. the components of Swiss manufacture make up for at least 50 percent of the value, without considering the cost for assembly.



According to article 3 of this law, in case the watch only contains a Swiss movement but does not comply with the other requirements, the dial may only bear the indication "Swiss movement". The word "movement" must appear written out in full in the same type-face, dimension and colour as the appellation "Swiss". (think Renato)


In other words, a watch bearing the terms "Swiss made" on its dial should not only contain a Swiss movement, but this movement should be cased up in Switzerland and the Swiss manufacturer should have performed the final inspection of the watch.

Swiss law territorial scope of application is of course limited to Switzerland in principle, but thanks to some bilateral treaties, this law is also applicable in some European countries. Furthermore, the Federation is very keen to protect Swiss denominations when associated with watches, especially in the USA, where we have registered certifications marks for the words "Swiss" and "Swiss made".


According to Invicta's website, the brand Potger Pietri belongs to their group. The trademark "Potger Pietri" has been registered in the USA by Lalo, Eyal, CEO of Invicta (registration n° 2938664). We do not have any information as to the compliance of the Potger Pietri watches marked "Swiss made" with the Swiss Ordinance mentioned above. WIthout proof that such compliance exists, the watches may not be legally marked "Swiss made".

Hoping that this information will prove to be useful, and staying at your service, I remain,

Yours sincerely



Vincent S***********

Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry FH
Legal Department
CH-2501 Bienne
Tel +41 (0)32 328 08 28; Fax +41 (0)32 328 08 80
www.fhs.ch


Last edited by koimaster on Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Potger Pietri by Invicta - Swiss Made?   Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:40 pm

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE, Thanks Koi
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PostSubject: Re: Potger Pietri by Invicta - Swiss Made?   Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:49 pm

alain, As usual, well done. Your posts ARE interesting and though provoking. I have a friend whose son is in the top 3 at Selitta and he tells me things that would curl your hair (lol).
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PostSubject: Re: Potger Pietri by Invicta - Swiss Made?   Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:57 pm

Koi, I like all the tracking down that you do and this is VERY interesting to say the least! I wonder how this would go over if it were posted on other sites! Question Question
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PostSubject: Re: Potger Pietri by Invicta - Swiss Made?   Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:53 pm

sheraortho wrote:
Koi, I like all the tracking down that you do and this is VERY interesting to say the least! I wonder how this would go over if it were posted on other sites! Question Question


I intend to find out
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PostSubject: Re: Potger Pietri by Invicta - Swiss Made?   Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:59 pm

GO MAN GO!!
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PostSubject: Re: Potger Pietri by Invicta - Swiss Made?   Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:39 pm

Gonna call you SHARK master instead of KOI master!
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PostSubject: Re: Potger Pietri by Invicta - Swiss Made?   Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:36 pm

Z-Freak wrote:
Gonna call you SHARK master instead of KOI master!



http://watchgeeks.net/showthread.php?p=478521#post478521


more info added which includes S.coifman
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PostSubject: Re: Potger Pietri by Invicta - Swiss Made?   Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:47 pm

Hello folks first let me say this is very interesting indeed. I am not shocked in the least and would love to really know for sure where their so called Swiss Made is really made. As a dealer I have time and again lost sales of real Swiss made watches when people have pointed out they can get a Swiss Made Invicta for much less than what were very low prices the I had.

Also i personally have felt the arrogance of the brand when I have tried to connect with top people from the company. I can talk to Jean Claude Biver (Hublot) but not Lalo. Seems really odd to me.

At any rate on my forum we don't allow brand bashing etc. However this seems to go well beyond that. It looks like it would be just reporting on a news item.

I have contacted my FH legal contact which is not the one that was contacted by Alain. I have asked if they intend to take legal action as it would appear that Invicta would be the single largest abuser of the term Swiss Made. If they don't take action against them. They would be fools.

I also have passed info along to others in the industry on the manufacturing end who have also lost sales due to Invictas ultra low priced Swiss watches.

In addition I have passed this along to two of the leading watch bloggers who in turn write for other larger sites and in one case a print pub.

My question is how to find out where these are really being made? What is the truth really? Has anyone tried to get aninvestigative journalist in Switzerland onto this trail? If not you might want to.

In closing I want to point out I am not saying this is at all true. But I would be really shocked if its not.

Best Regards,

Thomas Carey
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PostSubject: Re: Potger Pietri by Invicta - Swiss Made?   Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:49 pm

I was banned for posting that information at Watch Geeks. Now everthing I have will be sent to certain people via certified mail tomorrow and let the chips fall where they may.
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PostSubject: Re: Potger Pietri by Invicta - Swiss Made?   Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:54 pm

koimaster wrote:
I was banned for posting that information at Watch Geeks. Now everthing I have will be sent to certain people via certified mail tomorrow and let the chips fall where they may.

No shock your were banned there at Invicta land. No great loss to yourself either in my view. I would really like FH to do something because there is another brand that is not nearly as tainted which I beilve is doing the exact same thing. I suspect that FH is not cracking down so these brands are just doing as they please.

Best Regards,

Thomas Carey
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PostSubject: Re: Potger Pietri by Invicta - Swiss Made?   Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:13 pm

Thomas Carey wrote:
koimaster wrote:
I was banned for posting that information at Watch Geeks. Now everthing I have will be sent to certain people via certified mail tomorrow and let the chips fall where they may.

No shock your were banned there at Invicta land. No great loss to yourself either in my view. I would really like FH to do something because there is another brand that is not nearly as tainted which I beilve is doing the exact same thing. I suspect that FH is not cracking down so these brands are just doing as they please.

Best Regards,

Thomas Carey

feel free to post my original post that got me banned. It was not brand bashing on my part. Those are facts, not just throwing mud to see what sticks
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PostSubject: Re: Potger Pietri by Invicta - Swiss Made?   Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:23 am

Koi amazes me. His take no prisoners in the pursuit of the truth and let the chips fall where they may reminds me of my dad who always says "it is what it is" and its not something else someone would have you believe it is. In another life alain was probably a top notch investigative reporter. My 2 cents,,,a good man is a good man and shouldnt be condemned for being a good man. Thanks alain for all your research and the time and effort you put into the information you have gathered,,,job well done my friend
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PostSubject: Re: Potger Pietri by Invicta - Swiss Made?   Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:40 am

this is what Michael posted this evening.... and I bet people fall over themselves believing it. Someone let magster know it was me that was banned.


Today, a post was made by a long term member. It was removed. A PM was sent to that user explaining that the post had been removed, why it was removed and under what conditions it could be re-posted. Instead of dealing with the issue as it was, this member decided to take the note from a member of the admin team and send it to 25 other people. Some on the forum and some off of the forum. This is a violation of our TOS. It states (in part):


Quote:
If the Watch Geeks Moderation Team feels that a user has "crossed the line" one too many times, they will issue the user a warning. This warning may be done via a PM or, if serious enough, may result in an immediate "Yellow Card" and then followed by a PM. This warning will not be discussed on the Watch Geeks public forums nor shared with other members very PM or email - violators will be subject to an immediate loss of their account. (further, see above DO NOT FLAME THE STAFF).

About a month ago, I made a very blunt post that we (the admin team) were going to be strictly enforcing the TOS. We (the admin team) ment what was in that post. Again, everyone needs to go read the TOS. As a result of what happened, this member is no longer with us. Not because of the post that was made, but because of the violation of the TOS. If the admin team has an issue with something that is done on the forum, in needs to be worked out in a prescribed manner.




Because Michael and the others do not get it, my lawyer was emailed this evening with a set of notations to follow. I had already made preparations for this some time back. Via certified mail, the kool kids and big 4 posts will be delivered to several different persons. As I said, let the bodies hit the floor.

Done......... And Jim, next time you screw with a forum, don;t let me find out about it. Think Marianne Chase
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PostSubject: Re: Potger Pietri by Invicta - Swiss Made?   Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:16 am

koimaster wrote:
this is what Michael posted this evening.... and I bet people fall over themselves believing it. Someone let magster know it was me that was banned.


Today, a post was made by a long term member. It was removed. A PM was sent to that user explaining that the post had been removed, why it was removed and under what conditions it could be re-posted. Instead of dealing with the issue as it was, this member decided to take the note from a member of the admin team and send it to 25 other people. Some on the forum and some off of the forum. This is a violation of our TOS. It states (in part):


Quote:
If the Watch Geeks Moderation Team feels that a user has "crossed the line" one too many times, they will issue the user a warning. This warning may be done via a PM or, if serious enough, may result in an immediate "Yellow Card" and then followed by a PM. This warning will not be discussed on the Watch Geeks public forums nor shared with other members very PM or email - violators will be subject to an immediate loss of their account. (further, see above DO NOT FLAME THE STAFF).

About a month ago, I made a very blunt post that we (the admin team) were going to be strictly enforcing the TOS. We (the admin team) ment what was in that post. Again, everyone needs to go read the TOS. As a result of what happened, this member is no longer with us. Not because of the post that was made, but because of the violation of the TOS. If the admin team has an issue with something that is done on the forum, in needs to be worked out in a prescribed manner.




Because Michael and the others do not get it, my lawyer was emailed this evening with a set of notations to follow. I had already made preparations for this some time back. Via certified mail, the kool kids and big 4 posts will be delivered to several different persons. As I said, let the bodies hit the floor.

Done......... And Jim, next time you screw with a forum, don;t let me find out about it. Think Marianne Chase

What did Jim do on another forum that involved Maryanne Chase?
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PostSubject: Re: Potger Pietri by Invicta - Swiss Made?   Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:39 am

Wondering about Mrs. Chase as well. I can't help but wonder how this post should have been worded for them to allow its posting.

Best Regards,

Thomas Carey
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PostSubject: Re: Potger Pietri by Invicta - Swiss Made?   Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:45 am

Hey Guys,

While I am all about free, FACTUAL speech here, I don't want this topic to become a...distraction...to the main purpose here, to discuss WATCHES!

Alain shared a very poignant letter and it was met with a negative reaction, which is not surprising.

Feel free to discuss this further via PM or personal email and trust me...I am NOT reading your PMs, I don't even know how! lol! Laughing lol!
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