Seiko File: COSC vs. Grand Seiko Standards

The standards set by COSC are often referred to in WIS circles with respect. It is interesting to me, as a Seikophile, that many WIS seem to think they are the best you can get in a production watch. I've used the term before and gotten flack for it but many WIS are plain Eurocentric in their prejudices. There is nothing inheriently better about a watch made in Europe. Nothing that Europeans can do that others can't do as well. The Japanese have a long cultural tradition of seeking perfection. They have their own standards for a watch that will be sold with the Grand Seiko name. The COSC and GS standards are remarkably similar. They use similar methodology, which is not surprising as they are testing the same things essentially. The main difference between the two is the extra position that the GS standard includes. The GS specs are also tighter overall.

What does that mean practically? Well, any movement that passes either standard is a fine precision instrument. However, while a watch that passes the GS standard will also pass COSC's - the opposite is not true.

Another issue that comes up from time to time when folks "discuss" these things is that these standards only apply to movements. For COSC this is true. All tests are done on uncased movements that must be returned to the manufacturer after the COSC testing to be cased up. This is a significant issue in my opinion because this means that the movements must be shipped back to the factory thereby allowing multiple opportunities for them to become less well adjusted via bouncing, jarring, etc. The Seiko process is completely different. All GS movements are assembled, adjusted, certified and installed within the same Seiko facility. This is important because we're talking incredibly finely adjustment precision instruments.

Info compiled from:

http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=138058
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COSC
http://www.seiko-watch.co.jp/resource/pdf/manual/9S56_02.pdf
Table from WUS's Seiko Forum

Great stuff Doc!

Thanks. Just an added disclaimer:

I own 2 COSC watches. 1 is my Mido All Dial 3 hander that I had to arrange for a copy of the COSC certificate through Swatch in Switzerland and the other is my recent gift from James13 the Cyma Navy Star. I do not own, nor have I ever owned unfortunately, a Grand Seiko.

So what you're telling me is Seiko runs the test very interesting!! ....















just playin doc

cali kid wrote:

So what you're telling me is Seiko runs the test very interesting!! ....

just playin doc

Yup. They do. Got a problem with that? Huh? Do I need to have AH have a chat with you? You're not causing trouble again, are you?

Nope dont need any pm's or public thrashing in the town square by AH!! I'm good and Seiko Rocks!!

cali kid wrote:

Nope dont need any pm's or public thrashing in the town square by AH!! I'm good and Seiko Rocks!!

Darn right. Don't let it happen again.

. . . Ahem..... Doc try to remember in the future to address Mr. Cali-King through his public interface, Mr. Noob.

This would be greatly appreciated, and may indeed save our lives. . . .

Incredible info here ! VERY informative too !
The COSC VS. Grand Seiko comparison is really something !!!
It could probably even be on pay-per-view !

randyswagon wrote:

. . . Ahem..... Doc try to remember in the future to address Mr. Cali-King through his public interface, Mr. Noob.

This would be greatly appreciated, and may indeed save our lives. . . .

Thanks Randy, forgot about that! Bring it up to my associate Mr. Noob!!

Great stuff as always Doc.

This is why Seiko wasn't invited to the Chronometrie 2009 International timing competition. The europeans were afraid that they might loose.

SopheNic wrote:

Great stuff as always Doc.

This is why Seiko wasn't invited to the Chronometrie 2009 International timing competition. The europeans were afraid that they might loose.

BINGO Dave. You win the prize.

Oh, and Welcome to XMT.

-Robert

Thanks Doc

So, do I win a Grand Seiko as my prize?

SopheNic wrote:

Thanks Doc

So, do I win a Grand Seiko as my prize?

Your prize is WISdom my friend, WISdom.

Thanks, doc. The first post was very informative. I've a couple of Seiko questions still hanging in the Seiko thread going upstairs in the "General Watch" section. trying to learn some more about them.

The rest of the posts were also very informative, but on a whole different level...

porschefan wrote:

Thanks, doc. The first post was very informative. I've a couple of Seiko questions still hanging in the Seiko thread going upstairs in the "General Watch" section. trying to learn some more about them.

The rest of the posts were also very informative, but on a whole different level...

We aim to please. Sometimes people wander into these threads and try to make trouble, we deal with them but unfortunately the debris is left behind to clutter an otherwise excellent thread. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Sorry!!

cali kid wrote:

Sorry!!

Thanks.

you guys bust my gut.

porschefan wrote:

you guys bust my gut.

Sorry. err....Thanks

Interesting topic, would like to see some Grand Seikos and what they charging for them. The Swiss Made thing does'nt mean what it used to as far as I'm concerned. I think it can be argued that some of the large Japanese manufacturers can and do exceed Swiss standards in a lot of ways.

merichar wrote:

Interesting topic, would like to see some Grand Seikos and what they charging for them. The Swiss Made thing does'nt mean what it used to as far as I'm concerned. I think it can be argued that some of the large Japanese manufacturers can and do exceed Swiss standards in a lot of ways.

The down side of the GS right now is the incredible strength of the Yen. Prices are high and put them on a Par with Rolex. I've seen many a comparison between the two where Rolex comes off second, but they have increased in cost for those of us in the US using $s.

randyswagon wrote:

Docrwm wrote:

porschefan wrote:

Thanks, doc. The first post was very informative. I've a couple of Seiko questions still hanging in the Seiko thread going upstairs in the "General Watch" section. trying to learn some more about them.

The rest of the posts were also very informative, but on a whole different level...

We aim to please. Sometimes people wander into these threads and try to make trouble, we deal with them but unfortunately the debris is left behind to clutter an otherwise excellent thread. Sorry for the inconvenience.

. . . . Ooops. I'm sorry as well. . . Randy.

It's all good