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 Seiko Vs Citizen

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Anomaly
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PostSubject: Seiko Vs Citizen   Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:31 pm

I know we have a lot of Seiko supporters here but Citizen makes some nice looking watches too...

In you own words (not a big cut/pasted article), what differentiates Seiko from Citizen?

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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:50 pm

Interesting question. I'm looking forward to the answers.
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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:21 pm

I guess that it comes down to perception...I agree that there are plenty of cool vintage Citizens and some pretty cool new models (as evidenced by Sean's recent purchases), but it isn't one of the brands that first come to my mind --- Seiko is! Maybe it is because I prefer dive watches and Seiko has a pretty good presence in the market...not sure.

I am not as big of a Seiko fanboy as Doc is, but I do like my Seiko!

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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:48 pm

I also think it' all about perception and marketing. I had always associated with lower end and discount stores (Sears, Service Merchandise etc.) Seiko I always thought as a cool tough as nails utilitarian watch. As my interest in watches has grown over the years and I looked more into both and while I have alot more respect for Citizen and what they offer (I love my Ecozilla!) I still favor Seiko. No logical reason tho!
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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:50 pm

Seiko has more upper level models and lines. And because of this, IMO Seiko has a higher level of respect in the industry and from consumers.

BUT! Citizen does have a massive presence and has been reported to be the largest watch brand by volume.
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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:56 pm

Is this topic active on other brand specific forums? probably but since I don't ever read them its a new topic for me.I hadn't ever given it much thought when
buying either brand.When I was hunting these 3 watches,I looked at both brands.I was looking for specific features.It never crossed my mind about a quality difference between the two. I don't see any quality differences.For solar and eco with atomic I look at citizen and Casio.Citizen usually wins out with pricing.
for dive watches both have a larger selection.For automatics,I have both.The citizen autozilla and a seiko sumo.I think the citizen is better because of the hard coating it uses and the cleanable,removeable bezel feature.Also its pretty accurate.But when getting into ecos and kinetics,the choices get really difficult.If you had asked me 4 years ago,I wouldn't have said either brand was good.My how things change.I think one of my best watches is the seiko sbbd001 kinetic direct drive.
So as far as I'm concerned,both are good.Really no preference for either other than functions.
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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:18 pm

I think of Citizen as the frosting and Seiko as the cake. Citizen has all the buttons and busy dials, Seiko just gets it done with the movement, dial and case!
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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:34 pm

think they both do things the right way, what i dig about citizen is they sell miyota movements to small up and coming watch companies and the 8200 series is tough as nails and a great choice for any dive watch case!
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Anomaly
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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:36 pm

yamahaki wrote:
Is this topic active on other brand specific forums? probably but since I don't ever read them its a new topic for me.I hadn't ever given it much thought when
buying either brand.When I was hunting these 3 watches,I looked at both brands.I was looking for specific features.It never crossed my mind about a quality difference between the two. I don't see any quality differences.For solar and eco with atomic I look at citizen and Casio.Citizen usually wins out with pricing.
for dive watches both have a larger selection.For automatics,I have both.The citizen autozilla and a seiko sumo.I think the citizen is better because of the hard coating it uses and the cleanable,removeable bezel feature.Also its pretty accurate.But when getting into ecos and kinetics,the choices get really difficult.If you had asked me 4 years ago,I wouldn't have said either brand was good.My how things change.I think one of my best watches is the seiko sbbd001 kinetic direct drive.
So as far as I'm concerned,both are good.Really no preference for either other than functions.

BRAND SPECIFIC forums probably don't allow such a discussion, WE DO!

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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:02 pm

The two Citizen's I've owned have been great watches. Both had superior build quality and plenty of features for the cost. The one I still have was a present from my wife, Blue Angles model, and dealing with Citizen US was a breeze - free links, great CS, quick shipping - terrific.

I have not owned a Citizen Auto per se. I've had several watches with Miyota movements but none were actually Citizen watches.

I've always preferred Seiko, but not for any specific reason but merely from early experience and ongoing positive experiences with their watches. I like that they are a self-contained manufacturer of their own watches (even the oils used are made by one of their own companies). And as I have learned more about watches I have appreciated more and more Seiko's basic philosophy and approach to making watches. I don't love all their models, but I do have great respect for their integrity and commitment Their higher end watches are truly World Class and I do honestly believe that if you sanitized the dial and case and put "Swiss Made" on many of their mid-level and higher watches the price they command would increase dramatically.
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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:38 pm

Docrwm wrote:
Their higher end watches are truly World Class and I do honestly believe that if you sanitized the dial and case and put "Swiss Made" on many of their mid-level and higher watches the price they command would increase dramatically.
The man speakith the truth!
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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:45 pm

Ironic this comes up, so close to this thread running.

http://www.watchtime.com/2010/04/grand-seiko-to-be-distributed-internationally/

From the article:
"Beginning this year, Grand Seiko timepieces will be officially released
to international markets. Until now, the Grand Seiko brand has been
available only in Japan, and outside collectors have gone to great
lengths to obtain these prized watches. Launched in 1960, Grand Seiko
represents Seiko’s finest quality timepieces. Every Grand Seiko
component, from the movement to the case, is manufactured to the highest
standards in-house. Cases are polished by the Zaratsu method to create
the flattest mirror-finish surfaces. Hands and hour-markers have razor
edges to deliver the best visibility. Mainsprings are fashioned from
Seiko’s proprietary Spron alloy"


Interesting position of the subs:
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Anomaly
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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:21 pm

Just me or do the pushers look a bit BIG for the watch?

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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:23 pm

Anomaly wrote:
Just me or do the pushers look a bit BIG for the watch?

No, Alan, this time it's not just you. I thought so, too.
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AtomicTom
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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:03 am

I don't have any Seikos or Citizens ! So I'm basically learning the difference
or differences from all of you here ! Thanks for that !

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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:03 am

The Japanese design with utility in mind 1st so the pushers and crown make sense.Thats not a large watch.The pushers and crown are that size to make them easy to grip.put those in a 45mm case and then they wouldn't look out of place.
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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:42 am

. . . the fit and finish on Seiko is so well done, as is with most Japanese products.

. . . I worked with Honda dealerships for many years and witnessed the steady progression of quality. They focused on the quality and introduced features sparingly as they moved along.

. . . It gave me great respect for the Japanese business ethic. That respect has made me a solid customer for many of their import products, not only the watches.

. . . As for Citizen, I have owned a few over the years, but have usually preferred the Seiko designs . . .


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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:50 am

Like everyone else, I prefer Seiko over Casio. For me it's perception too. I have always associated Casio with lower end watches and Seiko to be far better in construction and looks. I've never really liked the looks of any Casio that I've seen. I just would rather have a Seiko any day of the week.
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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:51 am

sheraortho wrote:
Like everyone else, I prefer Seiko over Casio. For me it's perception too. I have always associated Casio with lower end watches and Seiko to be far better in construction and looks. I've never really liked the looks of any Casio that I've seen. I just would rather have a Seiko any day of the week.

Well it was CITIZEN but a Casio comparison is OK too!

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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:55 am

A good question and likely no definitive answer. I have owned both in the past but soon dropped collecting the Citizens for the huge selection of vintage Seikos across the style board. I did have one great 90s Citizen Tough series and that could have been a keeper but eventually flipped it. Over the last 6 years since collecting Japanese watches, the Seikos have corralled the market, at least for the overseas WISs.

In Japan Seiko is known as the best quality watch and most expensive. It controls the marketing outlets so that it picks and chooses where it wants to sell. When I first arrived here in Japan in 2003, I looked for Orients and Citizens and higher end diver Casios etc. but none to be seen! All the great models we knew were overseas models! This has loosened up since last year, however. Now, I see more of each watch brand in showcases!

Citizens marketed in Vancouver in the 90s were primarily all the Pilot style watches. I learned recently why...In Canada at least, Seiko made stores buy Seiko inventory, while Citizen allowed stores to sell their brand without tyng up inventory cashflow!

Quality of Citizens is on par with Seiko, as is Orient IMO. The big difference is that Seiko offers the huge choices of styles, lines and calibers, for overseas buyers. Modsters can create their own styles with many parts available. Very few guys mod Citizens or Orients. Citizen watches just don't have the variety to match Seikos.

I have seen guys collect the higher end Citizen divers (300m and 600m and 100m models ) and they are just as good as the Seiko Prospex line IMO. The 90s were a banner year for good watch styles from all the Japanese companies.

Segmented markets:

Orient was forced to market outside of Japan in South America, eastern Europe and Southeast Asia. (Seiko now owns Orient outright but allows Orient to runs its own business. )
Casio focussed on digitals and captured that market with its G Shocks, and lower priced models. Casio home products are cheap here and the Casio name is synonymous with cheap inexpensive products. In stores here you will see, however, many , many G Shocks in showcases. Protreks get more shelf space too. Citizen wall clocks using radiowave reception are very popular in hotels etc. But Citizen watches still remain few in quantity and models....no divers displayed! Dive watches are NOT popular here....too garish and ostentatious for the average buyer. As some of the above posters suggest...all is PERCEPTION! and Seiko is King of marketing!


Last edited by thianwong on Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:57 am

GREAT reply Thian!

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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:17 am

I agree about the pushers. Also, too much text on the dial. Move the Grand Seiko to the top, delete the Seiko and GS logo and you have a much crisper and cleaner look. Leave GS for the crown.
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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:25 am

Show me the ultimate (current model, 3-hand or 3-hand/GMT) Seiko Diver!

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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:40 am

Anomaly wrote:
Show me the ultimate (current model, 3-hand or 3-hand/GMT) Seiko Diver!

These would be on my list...


Diver-ish...new



http://www.seikousa.com/pop-up/snr019.html


Spring Drive GMT (Cal.5R66)SNR019S

Model: SNR019
Technology: Spring Drive Gmt
Collection: Ananta
Men's Watch

Features

• Spring Drive GMT
• GMT hand
• Power reserve indicator
• Power reserve: 72 hours
• 30 jewels, 296 parts
• Sapphire crystal with anti-reflective coating
• See through case back with sapphire crystal
• 100 meter water resistant
• MSRP $4,300

Price

$4300.00







== SEIKO MarineMaster PROFESSIONAL 600 M Diver Spring Drive ==


  • Ref: SBDB001
  • Listed price: 472,500 JPY
  • Case Bracelet:Bright Titanium
  • Dial: Black
  • Crystal: Sapphire
  • Diameter: 45mm (without the crown)
  • Thickness: 17.0 mm
  • Weight: 175g
  • Movement: Spring Drive 5R66A power reserve 72 hours (30 Jewels)
  • 600M water resistance with a screw-down crown
  • Lumi Brite luminous paint at hands and marks
  • Rotating bezel with anti reverse spin function
  • +- 15sec/month



== SEIKO Marine Master PROFESSIONAL 300M Diver ==


  • Ref: SBDX001
  • Listed Price: 262,500 JPY (incl 5% tax)
  • Movement: 8L35 Automatic 26j
  • Hack function & Hand winding
  • Case: One piece structure, stainless steel
  • Crystal: Dual-curved Hardlex with non-reflective upper coating
  • Lumi Brite
  • Accuracy: +15/-10 sec per day
  • Water proof: 300 m water resistance for divers
  • Anti-magnetic
  • Power reserve: 50 hours
  • Diameter: 44 mm (without the crown)
  • Thickness: 14.6 mm
  • Bezel: Rotating with anti-reverse spin function
  • Crown: Screw-down crown



== SEIKO Marine Master PROFESSIONAL 1000M Diver ==



  • Ref: SBDX011
  • Listed Price: 315,000 JPY (incl 5% tax)
  • Movement: 8L35 Automatic 26j
  • Hack function & Hand winding Titanium steel
  • Crystal: Sapphire crystal
  • Lumi Brite
  • Accuracy: +15/-10 sec per day
  • Water proof: 1,000 m water resistance for divers
  • Anti-magnetic
  • Power reserve: 50 hours
  • Diameter: about 50 mm (without the crown)
  • Thickness: 17.4 mm
  • Bezel: Rotating with anti-reverse spin function
  • Crown: Screw-down crown





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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:42 am

WOW...not cheap either....$4K for a Seiko?

NOT disrespecting but HOLY SUSHI, must be because it is SPRING DRIVE?

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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:52 am

1000m is over 2 g's now the 300m is quite a watch but i still would look at the orient cfdoc001b if you can get 50% off!!





Watches » Diver » CFD0C001B











St. Patrick's Day Special - Use Code patty30
- Take 30% Off Your Order
- Free UPS Ground Shipping ($10 value)
- Free Surprise Gift! (valued between $30 - $300)

MSRP: $1800
















Send Us Your Pics »


In classic black, this diver blends style and utility in one of the best saturation diving watches on the market. A distinct, quality watch, the CFD0C001B features an in-house movement, solid stainless steel bracelet, and 1-Year Manufacturer's Warranty.



Band: Solid Stainless Steel Bracelet
Power Reserve: 42-Hour Power Reserve Indicator
Crystal: Sapphire Crystal with Anti-reflective Coating
Movement: Orient Caliber 46N4A
Clasp: Fold-over clasp with Double push button and safety
Crown: Screwed-down Crown
Case Measurement: Diameter 45.7mm Thickness 16.6mm
Strap Measurement: Fold-over Clasp with Double Push Button Safety
Water Resistance: 300m
Case Material: Stainless Steel
Case Diameter: 45.7mm
Case Thickness: 16.6mm
Dial Color: Black
Dial Window Material: Scratch-resistant Sapphire
Bezel Material: Stainless Steel
Bezel Function: Unidirectional
Calendar: Date
Warranty Type: 1-Year Manufacturer\'s Warranty
Band Material: Two-tone Stainless Steel
Band Length: Mens
Band Width: 22mm

Apples to apples the orient is a better deal, sapphire, bigger case, power reserve and big discounts and the cherry on top is the braclets doesnt rattle like the marine master 300m!


Last edited by cali kid on Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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andrema
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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:54 am

Anomaly wrote:
WOW...not cheap either....$4K for a Seiko?

NOT disrespecting but HOLY SUSHI, must be because it is SPRING DRIVE?
As the Fonz would say...EXACTIMUNDO!!




IMO - The Spring Drive movement is as good or better than its higher end Swiss or German counterparts!

I definitely want to own one some day...

I forgot this ultimate watch...

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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:56 am

Point deduction for being Chrono...

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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:57 am

cali kid wrote:
1000m is over 2 g's now the 300m is quite a watch but i still would look at the orient cfdoc001b if you can get 50% off!!





I was going to put the saturation diver...but he asked about Seiko, so I deleted it. Those are very nice in the yellow or orange dials! What am I thinking...Black is awesome too!

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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:59 am

we are one, you and me grasshopper!
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PostSubject: Re: Seiko Vs Citizen   Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:01 pm

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