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 New Kobold, same insane pricing

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PostSubject: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Fri May 14, 2010 9:21 pm


The all-new Comanche Chronograph is the latest addition to our professional-grade Soarway line of watches. Designed for military pilots, the Comanche Chronograph offers a number of glare-reducing features such as a matte-finish Deep Black dial, anti-reflective sapphire crystal and a matte-finish stainless steel case. Its uni-directional rotating bezel displays a count-up minute track. Screw-locked lug bars ensure that the strap is securely fastened to the watch, while a screw-locked crown keeps out dust particles and moisture. The Comanche Chronograph is powered by a Swiss automatic-winding movement (Valjoux 7750).

Available at an introductory pre-order price of $2,250 for orders placed by May 15th, 2010. The watch is scheduled to ship May 15th, 2010. At introductory pricing, the Comanche Chronograph arrives on a nylon strap and comes in a basic cardboard presentation box (wooden collectors box optional) and is covered by a one-year warranty.

Pre-orders are subject to a 20% non-refundable but transferable deposit. After the 5/15 dealine the price goes to......$3950 Shocked

Comanche Chronograph
Ref. KD 922361

Case: surgical-grade (316L) stainless steel; matte finish
Dimensions

41.3 mm diameter (bezel end to bezel end)
45.8 mm diameter overall (bezel end to crown end
50.8 mm length overall (lug end to lug end)
20 mm lug width (between lugs; measures strap width)
15.3 mm height overall

crystal synthetic sapphire; domed, anti-reflective (inside only); super-thick
crown screw-locked; signed
push pieces protected
bezel rotating, uni-directional; count-upminute scale; ratcheted
back solid stainless steel; plane; screw-locked
ratings* waterproof (20 atm/660 ft with crown and push pieces locked);
(3 atm/100 ft with crown unlocked)
antimagnetic; shock-resistant; pressure-proof to 20 atmospheres

Movement: ETA 7750; Swiss-made; chronograph mechanism winding automatic mechanism jewels 25
balance Glucydur
mainspring Nivarox 1
decoration Geneva stripes, perlage, beveled edges, polished screws; engraved, skeletonized, gold-plated winding rotor with Geneva stripes finish functions hours, minutes, seconds; chronograph hours, minutes, seconds; day, date other 42 hours power reserve

Just what makes this worth more than established brands that use 7750s too? They don't even
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Fri May 14, 2010 11:52 pm

Gonna step on some toes here, but IMO, KOBOLD is a WAY overpriced micro brand...

It may be American made, but that don't make it worth $4k.

Say what you will, HERITAGE, not matter how you spell it out, means something when you are competing with the big boys...

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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 1:06 am

Afew years ago,I did the preorder for the soa.It was late on arriving so kobold gave a free bracelet and a wood display box.
It arrived at my door for 1050.00.thats with all of the accessories.Thats the only kobold I've bought.The rest of them are
way over priced unless you get them used on the sales corners.And with some of them, they are in the service window.
those were fricker made,so whos going to service them now? kobold? kobolds new old movement they are starting
to use will be nothing but trouble.
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 3:05 am

Think you guys are wrong, they have been in business as long as anonimo and they're prices are right in line with them and you're getting a 7750 not a sw200 for 2250.00, hell invicta and renato have had 7750 that came to market at that price! With no more than 2500 watches produced in a year and being named one of the worlds top ten watch companies in 2002 by international watches they are on the right track! Wouldnt consider them a micro brand with over 30 watches at market and they dont buy of the self and were the first brand to sell direct to the customer through the internet! Panerai as we know them today was started only a year earlier and until they came out with and inhouse movement where were they getting 5 grand for a 6497 movement watch that some company sell in their watches for under 400 dollars! it all about supply and demand and kobold has had no problems moving their watches!
With retail pricing between $3,000 and $42,000, Kobold watches have been heralded by the international industry press as some of the world’s best in their markets. This acclaim is well-earned as Kobold watches today are worn not only by polar explorers, but also by NASA test pilots and astronauts, NSA and CIA operatives, SWAT teams, deep sea divers, field scientists and others who depend on their timepieces for their livelihoods if not their lives.Kobold will only manufacture a total of 2,500 watches in a given year. Compared to competitors who produce between 50,000 and 600,000 watches yearly, this may seem economically inefficient. Kobold justifies this policy by noting that less is more, especially when it comes to luxury goods. By limiting the supply so strictly, the company can maintain closer contacts with its loyal customers while ensuring its products' high quality. I own rolex, Breitling, Omega and more and would put my seal up there with any of them and the servicve in the USA is amazing! Whats a panerai cost with a 7750 and lets not forget that panerai made only 300 watches in its first 60 years and they were sourced out for the case and had rolex movement in them, so what makes the one extra year Richemont had them at market any better watch with this rich history of making things to help sink allied warships not watches and priced well beyond rolex on many pieces!Just because your 78 years old but really werent in the watch building business until 1997 doesnt give me much in the line of heritage You get it or you dont but for my money i would prefer a watch that does things the way kobold does ! Too much kobold bashing when they are putting out watches nicer or just as nice as most the the higher end companies out there! If you've got a problem with kobold think you would have the same problems with panerai, anonimo! Opinions are like asshole everyone has one but until you own a kobold think your just talking out of one of your opinions! Guess we can all agree to disagree but i;ve heard talk of a 2500 dollar seiko and dont hear much about that fact from you doc! Instead of bitching about prices why not come out and say you dont like the brand because the price deal just doesnt hold water
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 3:38 am

Panerai watches using the 7750. and the prices they where going for in 2005, will try to get sdome 2010 prices but what you got to say about these prices with a 7750
PAM00104 4400.00 in 2005.... 6300.00 in 2010 Panerai Luminor Marina Automatic OPIII, Valjoux 7750-P1 base, automatic mechanical, PAM00104, polished steel case, Panerai, contemporary, 44mm</A>

PAM001644400.00 in 2005..... 63000.00 in 2010 Panerai Luminor Marina Automatic OPIII, Valjoux 7750-P1 base, automatic mechanical, PAM00164, polished steel case, Panerai, contemporary, 44mm</A>

</A>
PAM00220 5900.00 in 2005 ...8300.00 in 2010Panerai Luminor Marina Automatic OPIII, Valjoux 7750-P1 base, automatic mechanical, PAM00220, brushed steel case, Panerai, contemporary, 44mm, brushed and polished steel bracelet, bracelet</A>

PAM000484100.00 in 2005 6200.00 in 2010 Panerai Luminor Marina Automatic OPIII, Valjoux 7750-P1 base, automatic mechanical, PAM00048, polished steel case, Panerai, contemporary, 40mm</A>

PAM00049 4100.00 in 2005 6200.00 in 2010 Panerai Luminor Marina Automatic OPIII, Valjoux 7750-P1 base, automatic mechanical, PAM00049, polished steel case, Panerai, contemporary, 40mm, white dial</A>

PAM000505300.00 in 2005 7700.00 in 2010 Panerai Luminor Marina Automatic OPIII, Valjoux 7750-P1 base, automatic mechanical, PAM00050, brushed steel case, Panerai, contemporary, 40mm, brushed and polished steel bracelet, bracelet</A>

PAM000515300.00 in 2005 7700.00 in 2010Panerai Luminor Marina Automatic OPIII, Valjoux 7750-P1 base, automatic mechanical, PAM00051, brushed steel case, Panerai, contemporary, 40mm, brushed and polished steel bracelet, bracelet, white dial</A>


PAM001706670.00 in 2005 Panerai Luminor submersible OPIII, Valjoux 7750-P1 base, automatic mechanical, PAM00170, submersible, sub, Panerai, 44mm, contemporary, titanium case, titanium, anthracite dial, titanium and steel bracelet, bracelet</A>

PAM000876450.00 in 2005 7200.00 in 2010 Panerai Luminor Submersible OPIII, Valjoux 7750-P1 base, automatic mechanical, PAM00087, brushed steel case, Panerai, contemporary, 44mm, Submersible, Sub, Helium valve, blue dial, 1000 metres, date, cyclops, magnifying lens, rotating bezel</A>

PAM000244600.00 in 2005 6800.00 in 2010 Panerai Luminor Submersible OPIII, Valjoux 7750-P1 base, automatic mechanical, PAM00024, 24A, A-series, brushed steel case, Panerai, contemporary, 44mm, submersible, sub</A>

PAM000254900.00 in 2005 7400.00 in 2010 Panerai Luminor Submersible OPIII, Valjoux 7750-P1 base, automatic mechanical, PAM00025, brushed titanium case, Panerai, contemporary, 44mm, Paris hobnails dial, submersible, sub, titanium</A>

How do you feel about these eta 7750 base movement prices doc if you got a problem with 2250.00??
</A>


Last edited by cali kid on Sat May 15, 2010 3:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 3:50 am

Kobold ain't panerai trevor. Glad you like them.
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 3:55 am

Anonimo watches with 7750 5295.00
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 4:08 am

Anomaly wrote:
Gonna step on some toes here, but IMO, KOBOLD is a WAY overpriced micro brand...

It may be American made, but that don't make it worth $4k.

Say what you will, HERITAGE, not matter how you spell it out, means something when you are competing with the big boys...

have you ever handled a kobold watch?
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 4:12 am

yamahaki wrote:
Kobold ain't panerai trevor. Glad you like them.

But a base 7750 is a base 7750 and think that is where this cluster fuck started! If they dont like brand dont buy it, would think 95% of Kobold owners are thrilled with there watches no more koolaid than doc and his seikos??
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 4:25 am

maybe someone should get ahold of luke Snoballz at dwc and wus he owns 4 Kobolds and 5 Panerai's and see how he feels about the brands and how they compare and if either is a micro brand! and more importantly if kobold prices is anyfarther out there than any other brand that was built in the 1990's!
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 7:39 am

We ALL justify spending on a watch what WE JUSTIFY SPENDING ON A WATCH.

A little more Panerai History...



Giovanni Panerai (1825-1897), founder of the family business, opens the first watchmaker's shop in Florence on the Ponte alle Grazie and establishes contact with the most prestigious and longest established Swiss watch manufacturers. Giovanni is succeeded by his son, Leon Francesco.



Guido Panerai (1873-1934), grandson of the founder, expands his grandfather's business and gives itnew impetus, specializing in high precision mechanisms and becoming official supplier to the Royal Italian Navy.



At the turn of the century, theshop moves to the Piazza San Giovanni site in Florence, where the Panerai boutique can be found today, and the Orologeria Svizzera
name, still visible today, appears on the shop door to underline the close link between the watches and their Swiss origin.In this
period, the first deliveries of precision optical and mechanical instruments are made to the Ministry of Defence.






The first
experiments with luminous materials begin and a system is developed to
make instrument dials and sighting and telescopic devices luminous. The
luminescence is achieved using a mix of zinc sulphide and radium bromide
given later the name Radiomir.
Inserted into tiny glass
tubes to increase its resistance over time, this mix was the subject of
patent applications by Guido Panerai in Italy and other countries.





The Royal
Italian Navy employs the precision instruments supplied by Panerai
during the First World War. The products delivered include luminous
devices for sighting naval guns at night, timing mechanisms, depth
gauges and mechanical calculators to launch torpedoes from MAS, high
speed motor torpedo boats.



Guido Panerai's children, Giuseppe and Maria, continue developing their father's business. Maria is mainly concerned with running the Orologeria Svizzera shop, while Giuseppe devotes himself almost entirely to the company's business of supplying underwater instruments, torches, wrist compasses and wrist depth gauges to the Royal Italian Navy. He can take credit for the creation of the famous Radiomir and Luminor watches.






Following
disappointing tests carried out on the watches available at that time,
the Royal Italian Navy asks Panerai to develop a watch able to withstand
the extreme conditions it will be subjected to. A Radiomir prototype is
submitted to the Command of the First Submarine Group and the watch
passed all the tests with flying colours.






Production of
Radiomir watches begins for the Italian Navy, with a large (47 mm in
diameter) cushion-shaped case, wire loop strap attachments welded to
the case, screw-down crown, luminous dial easy to read under water in
the dark, and a hand-wound mechanical movement supplied by Rolex. The
wide strap was made of oiled and punched leather, and with its extra
long length it could be worn over the diving suit.





Officine
Panerai presents the prototype of the first Panerai chronograph, the
Mare Nostrum, designed for deck officers. Due to events in the war, the
Mare Nostrum never went into production but remained at the prototype
stage.
In the early 40s the device protecting the winding crown was fitted
to the Radiomir watch to keep the crown in position. This device will
enable the watches to descend to a depth of 200 metres, a remarkable
achievement for the time.




The patent is
granted for Luminor, the luminous substance based on tritium, which
replaced the previous Radiomir mix developed between 1910 and 1915.
The
Radiomir and Luminor watches take their names from these two luminous
substances.






On the
request of the Egyptian Navy, Panerai creates a large Radiomir watch
with an Angelus movement with 8-day power reserve and a rotating bezel
with 5-minute intervals to calculate immersion times.
For other
Mediterranean Navies, Panerai makes limited production runs of
approximately thirty pieces each.
In the same year the patent is granted in Italy for the device
protecting the winding crown, which clamps it in position and ensures
the water-resistance of the watch. This device will be patented in the
U.S.A. in 1960.






On the death
of Giuseppe Panerai, the running of the Florentine company is handed
over to the engineer Dino Zei and the family firm becomes Officine
Panerai s.r.l. The close collaboration with the Italian Navy continues
in the supply of watches, instruments and sophisticated devices for its
men.




A watch is
designed capable of withstanding a pressure equivalent to a depth of
1000 metres.
The only prototype built has a titanium case, an
automatic mechanical movement, a rubber strap and a luminous dial
achieved by using tiny phials of tritium on the dial face and on the
hands.




Officine
Panerai creates a numbered series in a limited edition of models aimed
at the civilian market: Luminor, Luminor Marina and an edition of the
Mare Nostrum chronograph.





A special
edition of watches called Slytech is created. Sly is the
nickname of actor Sylvester Stallone, a great admirer of the watch, who
had requested a special edition called Submersible to use during the
shooting of the movie Daylight. Subsequently, Stallone
requested an edition with a white dial, named Daylight, and a
personalized re-edition of the Mare Nostrum. All of these watches bear
the actor's signature engraved on the back.

1997


The Vendôme Group, now RICHEMONT, takes over Officine Panerai and the company's range of watches, compasses, torches and depth gauges. New productions are started up, with a significant improvement in quality, and the official watch of Italian Navy commandos takes on an international dimension following a worldwide launch.



The first Panerai watches with automatic mechanical movements are presented to an international public: the Luminor Submersible professional diver's watch; the Luminor GMT with a second time zone indication and the Luminor Power Reserve with a function of high quality watchmaking which enables the power reserve to be read.



At the International Salon of Haute Horologerie in Geneva, Panerai presents a new range of Contemporary watches based on important innovative features: a smaller case, 40 mm in diameter; a Panerai Luminor fitted with a metal bracelet; the use of the chronograph function and an exclusively designed Luminor chronograph case, in which the push-pieces are integrated into the device protecting the crown in total respect of the aesthetic of the historic watch; the use of a titanium-steel combination for the case parts and the links of the bracelet of the Panerai Luminor Chrono.



Panerai creates the Luminor Submersible 1000 metres, a professional diver's instrument designed according to the NIHS (Normes de l'Industrie Horlogère Suisse)
specifications relating to diver's watches and able to withstand a depth of 1000 metres. Equipped with a helium valve necessary for decompression, the sapphire crystal has a thickness of 5.1 mm and the steel back is 3 mm thick.



The Radiomir collection is enhanced by the 8 Days model. This is a return to the past, with the re-presentation in a modern key of a mechanism which Officine Panerai
has already experimented with, the hand-wound 8-day movement. The calibre used in the 1940s was the Angelus, while the new model has a Jaeger-LeCoultre base.
The case is 45 millimetres in diameter and is fitted with the patented slim wire loop strap attachments and a round caseband, while the screwed back and crown ensure water-resistance to 100 metres.

2005

Presented the first Panerai in-house movement: the calibre P.2002 This is a hand-wound mechanical movement of the latest technical conception with 8 days power reserve. It consists of 245 components (191 of them different) and the massive power reserve has been incorporated into a device of completely new design consisting of three spring barrels and a free balance spring oscillating at the frequency of 4 Hz, corresponding to 28,800 alternations/hour. The horizontal power reserve indicator is located at 6 o'clock. The P. 2002 calibre also features the GMT home time function with local time indicator over 12 hours and a.m. - p.m.
indicator, hours, minutes, seconds and date. The system for setting the time uses the second reset device, which stops the balance and aligns the second hand automatically in the zero position when the crown is pulled out, providing an extremely accurate way of synchronising the watch with the reference time signal. The development of this movement took four years due to its technical complexity.



Presented at the SIHH (Salon International de la Haute Horlogerie) in Geneva the new 2006 Panerai and Ferrari collections. Themanufacturing future of Panerai, inaugurated in 2005 with the Calibre P.2002 and the Radiomir 8 Days GMT is confirmed with the introduction of the Manifattura Collection, a family of watches which exclusively uses 100% made in Panerai movements. This collection respects the Panerai standards: robustness, high technical quality and a unique, distinctive
aesthetic impact. Presented as well the new watch collection engineered for Ferrari. The appearance of the Ferrari watches is strongly influenced by the aesthetic lines of the cars, in a continuous cross-reference between the watch and the details of the engine and bodywork. There are two collections: Granturismo and Scuderia.



Exactly ten years after the successful launch of the brand, and following the P.2002 calibre of 2005, Panerai is proud to announce three more calibres (P.2003, P.2004, P.2005) completely designed, engineered and produced by the Panerai Manufacture, which are destined to power the brand’s creations of the future.




The importance of the Manifattura Collection grows and new models with movements produced entirely by Panerai are introduced. Openings of new Panerai Boutiques in Asia, Japan, USA and Europe.


2009

Launch of the new P.9000 movements within the Manifattura Collection.




Launch of the P.999 calibre and presentation of the Jupiterium dedicated to the 400th anniversary of the first observations made with an astronomical telescope by Galileo Galilei.

A little more info than previously stated...

Another qualm I have is this, the arguments that I have heard before about companies not being owned by the ORIGINAL COMPANY don't really FLY with me. If I win a POWERBALL lottery of $1BILLION and buy Panerai or Kobold or Breitling or whoever but do not MESS with how they are made (I only by it for the ego trip), does that automatically negate any prior history? I don't think so...

Anyway, no one needs to get angry, as Trev said, no one's OPINION is any more valid that anyone else's OPINION...





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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 8:58 am

Trev,
First, sorry you're po'd. Second, I've owned 8-9 7750s and the most I've paid is $1200. Most were <$500. Third, as for Seiko - the single biggest difference for me is that unlike these other companies they make their own movements. So, when you pay more you actually get something different. Sorry, buy what you like but I'm still going to scratch my head at Fricker cases with standard Eta movements commanding $4000+- .
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 11:31 am

I think few care that seiko makes their entire watch. I still see it as a kiosk watch with a cheap brand image, spring drive or not.

In fact, I'm glad my two Panerais have a 7750 and a Unitas movement otherwise I'd be paying a few thousand more - oh, wait, no I wouldn't.
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 12:01 pm

Dont hate Panerai but feel Kobold isnt getting there fair shake from 1860 to 1993 the big P made 300 watches, not quite a jugger knot, reminds me of this history that invicta or croton can claim! Wasnt until 1993 and stallone had some made for friends did the watch take off, granted it's one of the worlds leading watch brands at this time but i see nothing wrong with what Kobold is asking and getting for they're watches, not to mention what Mike kobold is doing for our navy seal families! You take a look at any real watch collector with higher end watches and most times you're going to find a kobold in it and dont think you can say that about deep blue, O7 and all these other catalog brands! Wasnt long ago i read a post from sean about how fricker was in trouble so kobold took ther'ye business elsewhere, with their designs. fricker made KOBOLD cases, they dont anymore but they are still being made by kobold so tell me who owns the designs?? hell i will tell you Kobold does, they designed them and its their property other than the fricker salesman that was cannned for selling leftovers to dievas all the case designs left with the rightful owner KOBOLD!!Anyone can set a price but when you get it there isnt anything to talk about! Hate the brand all you want, bitch about the prices but the truth be told they are getting what alot of brands that make quality pieces are getting as you can see from the prices above!
so to you hater i got one thing to say!!!


one more thing, here are a few people you have aid for kobold watches!

Kobold has a loyal fanbase. Among those wearing a Kobold:
James GandolfiniMark Jackson (NBA)
Bruce SpringsteenSir Stirling Moss
Kiefer SutherlandMax Starks
Philippe CousteauLennie Loftin
Daniel LibeskindBurton Morris
Billy CrystalDon Johnson
Leonardo DiCaprioAngela Bassett
Glenn BeckDennis Haysbert
Michael JacksonDale Davis (NBA)
John Daly (PGA)Charles Oakley (NBA)
Gary SiniseLance Bass
Kirk CameronMatt Kranchick
Brad ThorBrian Williams
Expeditions / Explorers / Adventurers:



  • Sir Ranulph Fiennes, Bt. OBE (North & South Poles, Mt. Everest)
  • Anita Kobold (Mount Everest)
  • Ben Saunders, (North, South Poles)
  • Kenton Cool (Mount Everest)
  • Martin Hartley (expedition photographer, North Pole & Mt. Everest)
  • Rob Casserley (Mt. Everest, Atlantic Ocean Row)
  • Henry Todd (Himalayan expeditions)
  • Dr. Mike Stroud, OBE (South Pole)
  • Mike Pierce (Antarctica)
  • Marcus Fillinger (North, South Poles)
  • Wave Vidmar (North, South Poles)
  • Richard Donovan (North, South Poles)
  • Mick Dawson (Golden Gate Challenge)
  • Warren MacDonald (mountaineer & adventurer)
  • Dave Mills (North Pole)
  • Doug Thoust (South Pole)
  • Fedor Konyukov (North Pole)
  • Justin Speake (North Pole)
  • Cambridge Greenland Glaciology Expedition
  • Cold Feat Expedition (North, South Poles)
  • Polar Trilogy Expedition (North, South Poles)
  • Kevin Harvick (NASCAR driver - #29 car)
  • Jimmy Adams (race car driver)
  • Tom Slowik (tactical training instructor)
  • Jason Roane (tactical training instructor)
  • James Samaki (extreme diving)
  • Ingo Vollmer (deep sea diving)
  • C.E. Mitchell (photo journalist)
  • Steven Seaton (adventure journalist, North Pole)

Members of Police / Military units:



  • Los Angeles PD SWAT
  • Los Angeles PD Dive Team
  • L.A.County DA Bureau of Investigations
  • New York PD SWAT
  • Philadelphia PD SWAT
  • Atlantic City PD SWAT
  • San Antonio PD SWAT
  • Columbus PD SWAT
  • Pittsburgh PD SWAT
  • U.S. Secret Service
  • U.S. Secret Svc. Presidential Protection Unit
  • U.S. State Dept. Diplomatic Protection Unit
  • U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency (heli-support)
  • U.S. FBI (anti-terrorism unit)
  • U.S. NSA
  • U.S. CIA
  • U.S. Dept. of Homeland Security (Customs)
  • U.S. Army
  • U.S. Navy (Seals)
  • U.S. Air Force
  • U.S. Marines
  • U.S. Coast Guard
  • London Metropolitan Police (U.K. / SWAT)
  • Royal Air Force (U.K.)
  • Royal Marines (U.K.)
  • Royal Navy (U.K. / SBS)
  • Bundeskriminalamt (Germany)
  • SEK Bavaria (German anti-terrorism unit)
  • U.N. Peacekeeping Forces (U.S., Yugoslavia)
  • Royal Omani Air Force
  • Australian Army Commandos
  • Queensland Police Dept. (Australia)
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 1:08 pm

You bought this used.Why defend kobolds dumbass retail pricing when you didn't pay for it to begin with?
we've all watch kobold over the past few years.4.5k? I'm buying a Zenith.forum watches and other companies
that started on the forums are the last brands I'm looking at when spending that much coin on one watch.
You'd think for what they charge for a dive watch,they could at least use some real lume on them.
I like this kobold at the preorder price but think its retarded at the regular price.
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 1:23 pm

Docrwm wrote:
Trev,
First, sorry you're po'd. Second, I've owned 8-9 7750s and the most I've paid is $1200. Most were <$500. Third, as for Seiko - the single biggest difference for me is that unlike these other companies they make their own movements. So, when you pay more you actually get something different. Sorry, buy what you like but I'm still going to scratch my head at Fricker cases with standard Eta movements commanding $4000+- .

While I like Seiko doc,seiko inhouse doesn't mean shit in north america.Also,try and get a seiko with the 8r28 in it to compete with a swiss or
german watch running a eta movement.end result is the eta times out better.Seiko will always lose out in these price
ranges.Why? inconsistant materials within the same product line.the prospex line of divers? some have hardlex,others have
sapphire.?????????????????????????????? since they make everything,even the battery,while be schitzophrenic when it comes to
putting better components in the higher end watches?the sbdd001 has sapphire but the mm300 doesn't.both are dive watches.
why does seiko make the distance between the lughorns wider than the supplied bracelet? always a 1/2mm gap.Why are they 10 years
behind the swiss in bracelet quality?
Everyone throws up seiko when inhouse is mentioned.Well when a company sells 20 buck kmart specials,then inhouse doesn't account for much.
no swiss or german brand does that.For seiko to compete with eta cosc movements,they only have the springdrive and thats a hybred movement.
the 8L35 in the mm300 is a base movement with poor timing results.
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 1:45 pm

Again, it's all about what we PERSONALLY justify...

NO ONE is wrong for liking what they like, don't like, and deciding where to spend their money...

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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 2:40 pm

The list of who wears G-Shocks is longer. Shocked

Pricing is insane IMHO. Specs and components don't justify anything of the sort. Its a Cult watch, IMHO. Kobold has made it somehow because of his personality and connections. Again, the specs don't come near to justifying it.

On Seiko, Rolling Eyes . Seiko makes watches from Kiosk level to watches that will stand toe-to-toe with anything made in the Alps - period. You can quibble with their decisions about marketing, different combos of components, etc. but the idea that they don't have watches that are as precise, robust, and well made as anything Swiss is just plain incorrect. Again, for their HIGHER END pieces they do make all their own pieces - including the oils.

We can talk all day about Eurocentric Racism regarding Japanese products but the bottom line is that there is not a single thing made in Switzerland that can not be made just as well in Japan.
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 2:44 pm

Docrwm wrote:
...but the bottom line is that there is not a single thing made in Switzerland that can not be made just as well in Japan.

Cheese?

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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 3:43 pm

This is good, healthy, debate...I LIKE IT!

Trev...

How do you compare your Seawolf to Kobold? HONESTLY, if I didn't know a THING about watches and saw my Panerai and Breitling side by side, I'd probably me more impressed with the
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BREITLING!

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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 5:01 pm

porschefan wrote:
Docrwm wrote:
...but the bottom line is that there is not a single thing made in Switzerland that can not be made just as well in Japan.

Cheese?


Every had Japanese Cheese? Mmmmmm. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 5:09 pm

They make Swiss Cheese? Sakura, yeah.
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 5:11 pm

porschefan wrote:
They make Swiss Cheese?

Well, it does meet all the specifications to be called Swiss Cheese but you know how loose those are and how they're just designed to help market a product.
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 5:21 pm

Docrwm wrote:
porschefan wrote:
They make Swiss Cheese?

Well, it does meet all the specifications to be called Swiss Cheese but you know how loose those are and how they're just designed to help market a product.



Yeah, like "lite beer." They can call it "beer" but...
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 5:24 pm

porschefan wrote:
Docrwm wrote:
porschefan wrote:
They make Swiss Cheese?

Well, it does meet all the specifications to be called Swiss Cheese but you know how loose those are and how they're just designed to help market a product.



Yeah, like "lite beer." They can call it "beer" but...

Hey, the Swiss set up the rules man. Just ask Invicta.......
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 5:26 pm

...talking about "cheese."
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 8:09 pm

I was going to stay out of this one so I will reserve most of the comments I could make. The fact that Kobold pre sells watches at a discount makes them a micro brand in my book. There's nothing wrong with that IMO, but its hypocritical to call out some brands for a tactic and give another a pass on the same offense. A value judgement is just that, and there will always be divergent viewpoints. If any brand charges more than I am willing to pay it is overpriced-to me. Yet others buy them anyway so is the price really too high or is my Kool Aid watered down?
That said there is a Kobold Commanche reservation number for sale on WUS. He claims $300 savings with $1850 due and $200 to him which adds up to $2350-must be the new math.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=400529
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sat May 15, 2010 11:33 pm

Docrwm wrote:
The list of who wears G-Shocks is longer. Shocked

Pricing is insane IMHO. Specs and components don't justify anything of the sort. Its a Cult watch, IMHO. Kobold has made it somehow because of his personality and connections. Again, the specs don't come near to justifying it.

On Seiko, Rolling Eyes . Seiko makes watches from Kiosk level to watches that will stand toe-to-toe with anything made in the Alps - period. You can quibble with their decisions about marketing, different combos of components, etc. but the idea that they don't have watches that are as precise, robust, and well made as anything Swiss is just plain incorrect. Again, for their HIGHER END pieces they do make all their own pieces - including the oils.

We can talk all day about Eurocentric Racism regarding Japanese products but the bottom line is that there is not a single thing made in Switzerland that can not be made just as well in Japan.
Doc,I'm pretty sure I have a much larger collection of seikos than most.The ignition line,etc.Seiko can and does produce watches that compete with the swiss.
but those are grand seikos.You have to pay triple for a seiko thats up to the build quality of omegas lowest product.Now thats a fact.
Do you even own a highend seiko? like a springdrive or grand seiko? if not,then what so you base your opinion on?
also,eurocentric racism? please.I've worked with Yamaha and Honda for twenty years.Just like every other country in the world,they excell at some things
and are lacking in other things.The biggest fanboys on the various forums for seiko don't even own any of the highend peices.That tells me the whole
story.I like seiko,but considering the price point one needs to spend to get the quality of a good swiss watch,the return of investment isn't worth it.

But this is about kobolds pricing for new.No,its not even close.As mentioned,anycompany that does preorder is a forum micro brand.Even Doxa.
The only advantage I see in kobold over Doxa is Kobold knows how to spell patented.
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Sun May 16, 2010 1:10 am

Looks just like all the other Kobold watches. Sorta boring in my book.
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Mon May 17, 2010 9:56 am

I missed the boat on this one, but...here are my thoughts:



    • IMO Kobold MSRPs are too high...maybe $2K, but that would be the top end
    • Preowned is the way to go with this and most brands
    • I like the Kobold design more than the Panerai design...but I like dive designs
    • Panerai has a bit more history than Kobold, but not much more in terms of number of watches.
    • I would never pay MSRP for either brand or any other brand for the most part...maybe a cheap knock-around watch.
    • If it came down to movements, my decision would be Panerai every time.
    • Kobold would definitely be considered a micro brand because of the preorder pricing...but that is not a bad thing in my mind...so is Doxa and a bunch of others!!
    • Most of the time, the preorder prices are an indication of what the acutal retail price is. Trust me, these companies aren't just being nice to their "loyal customers", it is priced low enough for the WIS to jump on it and realize that it is low enough to justify buying a new watch.



OK...I'm done!

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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Mon May 17, 2010 11:17 am

Nice way to put it Mark.
1) some watches are worth the preorder price and thats where the real price is.Very few exceptions to that.
2)Nobody pays MSRP. In the literal sense,thats true but with internet branded watches,its what are you willing to pay.
For instance. The steinhart triton DLC 1000m. 471 euros - 19% vat for the usa.That makes this new watch 471.10 usd.wow.

A number of these companies price there watches without msrp.Those we do buy new if we feel they are worth the new price.
UTS and Kobold are classic examples of this.No msrp to base a % on.
So where do we find the real value of these watches?
Answer.On the sales corners.Kobolds sell in lnib now for about 1500 to 1700.00.So thats the real street price
we are willing to pay.two years ago it was 2500.00.UTS non chronographs pricing on the used market is according to depth rating.
500m,around 1050 to 1150.1000m rated,about 1450.00.2000m rated,2k,3000m rated 2.5k.
Buyers set the sales prices,not only on the sales corners but also on ebay.

When looking at the Steinhart price difference,the thing to take note of is the currency rate.The Dollar is high now.
The euro is very low at exchange rates making watches from the european community a much better deal for us at the moment.
Without getting into what doxa did, before they tried retail and jacked the prices up 100%,they sold new for about 1299.00
go onto the sales forums now.1300.00 is the average price and doxa is having a sale.Why?
for those watching the currency markets,Doxa has to follow the exchange rates.Instead of adjusting there prices for the low currency
exchange rates and admitting that jacking up there prices didn't work,they are now on permanent sale.

edit.I screwed up on the price.its 583.00 usd.
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Mon May 17, 2010 9:24 pm

Informative thread guys, good stuff and healthy debate.

As I mentioned over at DWC, the watch looks cool and at the pre-order price, probably a decent deal. Can't get my head around their "normal" pricing though.

That said, they are free to charge whatever they want, and for those who are OK paying it and like the watches, it's a win-win. Gotta love the free market.
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Mon May 17, 2010 10:25 pm

Kobold is in business (still) because they are pricing their watches right. If they were way over priced, goodbye Kobold.
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Tue May 18, 2010 2:54 pm

Sean, somewhere along the line you've forgotten that someone is and has been paying kobolds asking price for more than 10 years, it would be crazy of you to think every piece is pre sold! I would think they are as strong as ever and i see them in alot of high end collections, and dont kid yourself that omega, breitling and the likes dont take that big hit on the resale market too! Dan's post is without a doubt the smartest post in this whole thread, they're prices are what they are because they sell them at it! If it's not kobold, its rolex or some other brand! Believe me there isnt a watch company in the world thats not trying to get all they can out of they're product! Would you rather have invicta selling at 4 times the price for the first month only to go from 2 grand to 300 bones in a matter of months, or someone who pre sold some watches at a lower price and then charged more later? Think i've even heard mark say he buys all his Micro watches on a pre sale basis, the man difference is kobolds watches demand a higher price! I dont make the rules, just live by them! If you want to call kobold a micro brand thats fine but show me one other so called brand that puts the advertising in and tries to help people and families in need! I like my Seal and i'm just as proud to wear it as my rolex, omega, breitlings, maurice lacroix or even doxa! Next time your over at WUS in the panerai forum take a look at the watches these guys own, in most cases there is a kobold in that collection and not a benarus(not that there is anything wrong with benarus... well i do remember a few reviews buy someone who slammed them)! So does money make these buyers dumb or do maybe they feel the brand has a little more to offer! I really dont care what watches people buys but when i start hearing crap about a watch i own is way over priced it pisses me off, i've put up with it for almost 30 years with rolex and now with kobold.. just smells like sour grapes to me at this point! I'm done with this thread and we can all agree to disagree, some people want 100 low to mid range pieces and some want a few higher end watches! the only real thing that matter is you're happy with the collection you've chosen to own! i've had them both and i'm much happier now! Guess we can call more than a few watch houses that build to order for 500k and up a micro brand too! DONE!
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PostSubject: Re: New Kobold, same insane pricing   Tue May 18, 2010 3:24 pm

cali kid wrote:
Sean, somewhere along the line you've forgotten that someone is and has been paying kobolds asking price for more than 10 years, it would be crazy of you to think every piece is pre sold! I would think they are as strong as ever and i see them in alot of high end collections, and dont kid yourself that omega, breitling and the likes dont take that big hit on the resale market too! Dan's post is without a doubt the smartest post in this whole thread, they're prices are what they are because they sell them at it! If it's not kobold, its rolex or some other brand! Believe me there isnt a watch company in the world thats not trying to get all they can out of they're product! Would you rather have invicta selling at 4 times the price for the first month only to go from 2 grand to 300 bones in a matter of months, or someone who pre sold some watches at a lower price and then charged more later? Think i've even heard mark say he buys all his Micro watches on a pre sale basis, the man difference is kobolds watches demand a higher price! I dont make the rules, just live by them! If you want to call kobold a micro brand thats fine but show me one other so called brand that puts the advertising in and tries to help people and families in need! I like my Seal and i'm just as proud to wear it as my rolex, omega, breitlings, maurice lacroix or even doxa! Next time your over at WUS in the panerai forum take a look at the watches these guys own, in most cases there is a kobold in that collection and not a benarus(not that there is anything wrong with benarus... well i do remember a few reviews buy someone who slammed them)! So does money make these buyers dumb or do maybe they feel the brand has a little more to offer! I really dont care what watches people buys but when i start hearing crap about a watch i own is way over priced it pisses me off, i've put up with it for almost 30 years with rolex and now with kobold.. just smells like sour grapes to me at this point! I'm done with this thread and we can all agree to disagree, some people want 100 low to mid range pieces and some want a few higher end watches! the only real thing that matter is you're happy with the collection you've chosen to own! i've had them both and i'm much happier now! Guess we can call more than a few watch houses that build to order for 500k and up a micro brand too! DONE!

Good points Trevor. As a take away...they are all micro brands




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