I have to ask...

...and let's try to keep this in context to the question...

I've been collecting about 3 1/2 years total now; that said, before Invicta, which watch company, if any, got a lot of HEAT from collectors?

Again, let's talk about OTHER companies that got heat...

Tag and Franck Mueller, right? And the biggie, Claro Semag.

You WISes probably know more of the details than I do, but it's all basically the same story: Asian parts in a "SWISS" watch...

Renato and the Limited Edition thing that consumed WG for a week and a half...

Another small potatoes deal would be Croton and the "miyota" pineapple...

OOPS. You said BEFORE... The above examples are recent. I've only "collected" since 7.2009...

I have been "collecting" for about 7 years have always had a couple of watches since being a teenager.

I have/own(ed) the following brands

Citizen
Bulova
Casio
Sharp
Prague
Seiko
Timex
Pulsar
Pirelli
DKNY
Fossil
Swatch
Zodiac
Lum-Tec
Magico
Invicta
Croton
Alpha
32 Degrees
Sector
Renato
Swiss Army
Vostock
Skagen

24 different brands - (would not have guessed that many, might be missing a couple as well since I have deleted a lot of from photo bucket of sold watches) - anyway, in all honesty, only one of the above brands has ever had to go back to the manufacturer to CS for repair or other problems.

I'll let you guys guess which one.

:silent:

Yep...those Seiko's are real dogs

Rolex for their outrageous marketing claims and the myths that are rampant. Seriously, Rolex and a few others would get a lot of heat but the Big "I" has been the main target from '05 or so.

Docrwm wrote:

Rolex for their outrageous marketing claims and the myths that are rampant. Seriously, Rolex and a few others would get a lot of heat but the Big "I" has been the main target from '05 or so.

I just wondered, I mean as much as us WIS like to complain, I knew someone HAD to be taking heat BEFORE Invicta...

Good to see ya Mark.......where ya been?

Sorry guys didn't mean to redirect the flow!

Invicta was actually my first step into the world of watch collecting. Growing up it was always Timex. Then my first solid stainless steel watch was my Caravelle over 20 years ago. Still have it. So I'm lost when it comes to Watch Dirt!

I am in the dark too. I have only been collecting watches since 2007.

Well ya took the wind out of my sails.

labman wrote:

I have been "collecting" for about 7 years have always had a couple of watches since being a teenager.

I have/own(ed) the following brands

Citizen
Bulova
Casio
Sharp
Prague
Seiko
Timex
Pulsar
Pirelli
DKNY
Fossil
Swatch
Zodiac
Lum-Tec
Magico
Invicta
Croton
Alpha
32 Degrees
Sector
Renato
Swiss Army
Vostock
Skagen

24 different brands - (would not have guessed that many, might be missing a couple as well since I have deleted a lot of from photo bucket of sold watches) - anyway, in all honesty, only one of the above brands has ever had to go back to the manufacturer to CS for repair or other problems.

I'll let you guys guess which one.

I can't really help on this one !..I have been collecting about the
same amount of years. So my knowledge about this is minimal
I guess !

Duker wrote:

Good to see ya Mark.......where ya been?

Sorry guys didn't mean to redirect the flow!

Hey Earl - I'll shoot you a PM bro.

I used to frequent the PMWF several years ago and Invicta was the target of a lot of flack for its copying other watches.
Now that I'm into Chinese vintage watches, Claro-Semag and the whole Euro Swatch etc industry is a target for criticism. Why? Basically because some brands are importing Chinese well made Sea-gull movements, modding a few parts and claiming their watchs SWISS MADE. There is a legal definition of what constitutes that definition and with minimal alteration of a few parts, their watches are legally able to be classified as all Swiss made.
Alphas, Timex and a host of mushroom companies are using these Chinese Seagull movements like ST16, ST19s etc....very interesting !

thianwong wrote:

I used to frequent the PMWF several years ago and Invicta was the target of a lot of flack for its copying other watches.
Now that I'm into Chinese vintage watches, Claro-Semag and the whole Euro Swatch etc industry is a target for criticism. Why? Basically because some brands are importing Chinese well made Sea-gull movements, modding a few parts and claiming their watchs SWISS MADE. There is a legal definition of what constitutes that definition and with minimal alteration of a few parts, their watches are legally able to be classified as all Swiss made.
Alphas, Timex and a host of mushroom companies are using these Chinese Seagull movements like ST16, ST19s etc....very interesting !

That is some GREAT information Thian ! I have heard bits and pieces about this. However, you
really explained what some of these companies often do !..Thanks for the insight, it is very interesting !

I've been collecting since '01, I'm not sure, because I didn't do the discussion boards until about a year ago.

Here is a link to WUS site Chinese Mechanical Watch reference section, where A Zodiac watch with the Claro-Semag movement was examined to the Seagull ST16 Chinese movement....
http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?p=2304786

HOLY SHIT!!!! That's freakin pitiful! So that single difference in the entire movement allow it to be called Swiss Made???? And just FYI Thian, the watch was a Swiss Legend, not a Zodiac.

thanks for the correction...tis 5am and just woke up haha! mind still foggy and sipping coffee now! haha!

He sure knows his stuff..and fixed my Chinese mil chrono 1963 for a very reasonable price and shipped it back to Japan.

thianwong wrote:

He sure knows his stuff..and fixed my Chinese mil chrono 1963 for a very reasonable price and shipped it back to Japan.

Beautiful watch! Where did you pick it up & if someone wants one (me perhaps), how much do they run?

These were Seagull re-issues made by the Tianjin Seagull factory in 2008 in a few batches. Some went to a German fellow living near Hong Kong and some went to a Netherlands site called Watchesunique. Almost all are sold out now and are a collector's item. They usually sell for $220.00usd shipped. Now, if you can find one ...even in China...the price has increased.
I was reading the MWR site when I found a post by cnmark (Markus Bahlman) who was selling the watches. He lives in Mainland China near Hong Kong and works as a project engineer for a German company. His hobby is watch collecting and had ordered a batch from the Seagull factory in Tianjin city. I bought mine from him.
The history of this watch is cool. In 1963, the People's Republic Army asked Seagull factory (established in the 50's) to submit a mil watch for their jet pilots. After several testings, the factory got approval in May, 1965 to make the chrono. In 2008 the factory updated the original and re-issued the model you see in my photo.

I actually have been collecting since i was about 9, when my parents got me my first watch which is a Mickey Mouse watch that I STILL have. I have many different brands over the years, none of which have been terribly expensive. I didn't really start on the watch forums until a few years ago either but there are a few that i seem to remember. The Claro-Semag thing for sure, Renato and their numbering and their definition of limited edition and limited production and then probably the Rolex ting as well. They have taken some hits over the years most certainly for some claims they make like the metal they use and is it really that big a difference to justify a much higher price and then some other marketing claims they have made over the years.
Those are really the only ones I truely remember before Invicta. Since Invicta, I don't think there is ANY other watch company that has gotten as much crap (much of it deserved) as Invicta has.

sheraortho wrote:

I actually have been collecting since i was about 9, when my parents got me my first watch which is a Mickey Mouse watch that I STILL have. I have many different brands over the years, none of which have been terribly expensive. I didn't really start on the watch forums until a few years ago either but there are a few that i seem to remember. The Claro-Semag thing for sure, Renato and their numbering and their definition of limited edition and limited production and then probably the Rolex ting as well. They have taken some hits over the years most certainly for some claims they make like the metal they use and is it really that big a difference to justify a much higher price and then some other marketing claims they have made over the years.
Those are really the only ones I truely remember before Invicta. Since Invicta, I don't think there is ANY other watch company that has gotten as much crap (much of it deserved) as Invicta has.

Good insights man, Thanks!

thianwong wrote:

These were Seagull re-issues made by the Tianjin Seagull factory in 2008 in a few batches. Some went to a German fellow living near Hong Kong and some went to a Netherlands site called Watchesunique. Almost all are sold out now and are a collector's item. They usually sell for $220.00usd shipped. Now, if you can find one ...even in China...the price has increased.
I was reading the MWR site when I found a post by cnmark (Markus Bahlman) who was selling the watches. He lives in Mainland China near Hong Kong and works as a project engineer for a German company. His hobby is watch collecting and had ordered a batch from the Seagull factory in Tianjin city. I bought mine from him.
The history of this watch is cool. In 1963, the People's Republic Army asked Seagull factory (established in the 50's) to submit a mil watch for their jet pilots. After several testings, the factory got approval in May, 1965 to make the chrono. In 2008 the factory updated the original and re-issued the model you see in my photo.

Mark is a good guy to deal with, he's been very helpful in the past on obscure information regarding part numbers for my Fortis among other things!

Any of the higher end pieces take a beating on WUS, we all know about Rolex, but as of late they have been after Kobold, 12 pages worth! Some people just hate something because they cant afford it! Michael Kobolds prices are up there but he only makes 2500 pieces a years and seems to sale them!! Trying to bring the art of watchmaking back to the USA and i commend him on that!

cali kid wrote:

Any of the higher end pieces take a beating on WUS, we all know about Rolex, but as of late they have been after Kobold, 12 pages worth! Some people just hate something because they cant afford it! Michael Kobolds prices are up there but he only makes 2500 pieces a years and seems to sale them!! Trying to bring the art of watchmaking back to the USA and i commend him on that!

Trev,
Don't fall for that BS about people beating on things because they can't afford them. I beat HARD on Rolex and can afford one any day, had one, sold it. POS IMHO.

Docrwm wrote:

cali kid wrote:

Any of the higher end pieces take a beating on WUS, we all know about Rolex, but as of late they have been after Kobold, 12 pages worth! Some people just hate something because they cant afford it! Michael Kobolds prices are up there but he only makes 2500 pieces a years and seems to sale them!! Trying to bring the art of watchmaking back to the USA and i commend him on that!

Trev,
Don't fall for that BS about people beating on things because they can't afford them. I beat HARD on Rolex and can afford one any day, had one, sold it. POS IMHO.

I don't think he's saying all people do Robert, but many do. Especially when they hear things like, "Why would you spend your money on something when you can get the same quality for 1/10th the cost?" You are basing your opinion on personal experience...not just the cost and what you may hear from someone else.