forum sponsored companies

I guess the economy finally caught up to some of them.The only ones who didn't pay for forums are doing well like halios and Zixen. kremke down grades,Dwatch goes to 3t,korsbek hasen't introduced anything, prometheus is dead but doesn't know it yet.all of these 2000m cased micro companies have pretty much saturated the dive watch market.So what the outlook for 2010? I'm thinking a number of these brands will be gone after people spend their income tax returns on watches.its now credit card month,people are trying to recover from over spending during the holidays.thoughts on who survives?

I was never drawn to any of them.
No one needs more than one dive watch.

I have mine.

I never understood how all these micro companies could make it anyway. Unless you are super cheap (Like Bernhardt at $250) or super expensive (to me) like Kremke, you are in the area where people have to take real $$ that could be used for other things to buy these watches. That leaves a lot of micros in the $300-$1000 range. Honestly I will always go for a major brand (say the Tag Aquagraph I got from you, used) instead of spending that same $$ on an upstart or micro-brand. Down the road it just make sense. I think eventually they all fold up if the economy continues to tank.

I ALMOST see the MICRO brands as a HIGHER LEVER INVICTA FIX of sorts. They offer 2000m cases, good lume, nice bracelets for LESS than some of the major brands. Thing is, THEY ALL LOOK THE SAME. They use the same case, the same bezel, the same lume. The other thing is many will not transfer warranty from one owner to the next, I think that will REALLY hurt the micro brands as much as anything...

So far I have not purchased a micro-brand watch. I do have a couple that were given to me as gifts but I will stay with tried and true companies. It just makes more sense to me, especially with the current economy. Besides...I ain't got no freakin money anyway!

they were the next step in my collecting and most are gone, my only micro brand (the original) internet based sales watch price have gotten so high i dont know if i would call them a micro brand but only making 2500 watches a year with only decent lume dont think a piece can be had new for under 4 grand! the company would be Kobold, and what ever michael kobold did he did it right! Have sports heros, movie stars, some of the greatest explorers in the world and some of our armed forces wear his watches the guy seems to be able to get rolex prices from a company thats only 12 years old, started in 1998 by a 19 year old kid! Love my seal, and dont want to hear the vortex case thing because we all know that Kobold left Fricker and one of their employees sold the cases to dievas below cost and got fired for it and now i believe the guy works for Dievas! Anyway love them or hate them, the micro dive watch has brought high quality dive watches mainstream, just kinda like the custom bike craze, jesse james got rich, was in early before everyone and their brother were building bikes! Same with watches the guys at it first will be the last standing as long as the quality remains!

Flame on!!

The only forum watch that I still have is the Dievas Vortex (for now). I think the quality is excellent and the price was definitely very good for what you get. With that being said, I can definitely see how there can be oversaturation and some companies not making it another year.

However, there does seem to be a market for them...whoever survives.

It's rather sad to see the "Mom and Pop" stores go by the way of the dinosaur. The way of the world is not friendly these days to the small shops of any kind. Economy, price and cost of business, globalization, conglomerates....all make it tough to survive as a small company. When things get too big sometimes, all sight of service and quality can get lost......certainly not all the time. I have a soft spot for the small guy.

Dig the craftsman.looks like a Zeno chinese version.I stayed away from the 2000m cased watches like wilson,deep blue.I'm thinking zinex/zixen might make it but his prices pretty much suck.you can buy a new sinn u1 for what one of the new models cost. I think jason from halios will make it.I'm on his list to get a blue ring with the 6r15.I decided that the 6r15 is better than a 2824 and sw200 after testing the movement for 5 months.much longer power reserve and pretty accurate as well.
the original offerings from 2007,early 2008 were good,at least when people could afford them like the kenzo nautilus,korsbek oe at the presale price then the halios.
all the other ones ended up being over priced.I think noahs watch is pretty cool except the price its at.750.00? nah. the vortex ended up being a good deal.now that was some fun posting.trashing an entire forum............ drama sells folks.who do you think will survive here? I'm thinking most of the sponsored forum companies that produce swiss and german won't.I think korsbek shot himself in the foot with the oceaneer price.kremkes is also over priced.its not our fault they chose fricker to build them and paid such a hefty price per unit.any picks for whos staying and whos going? 3t brands included here.those old posts were just for fun,so include benarus,dievas, orsa,etc in your list of who stays and who goes.The guys who were doing the buying for these are for the most part either gone from the forums or moved onto only name brands.also include ocean in this.mkII also.his prices went through the roof to pay for his sponsored forum.

Maybe a BIT off topic...

But that is why XMT will NEVER have sponsors, we're not about pimping out out hobby. I have a JOB to make money, are a couple of free watches worth not being able to say what we REALLY think?

I think not...

Interesting stuff...
Zinex: Totally Agree - I would have more were it not for the price.

Curious where you guys would put LUM-TEC in this mess.
Do you think they'll make it?
Are they a worthwhile brand?

jaw wrote:

Interesting stuff...
Zinex: Totally Agree - I would have more were it not for the price.

Curious where you guys would put LUM-TEC in this mess.
Do you think they'll make it?
Are they a worthwhile brand?

Not TOO familiar with the brand but is LUME their main claim to fame?

Anomaly wrote:

jaw wrote:

Interesting stuff...
Zinex: Totally Agree - I would have more were it not for the price.

Curious where you guys would put LUM-TEC in this mess.
Do you think they'll make it?
Are they a worthwhile brand?

Not TOO familiar with the brand but is LUME their main claim to fame?

Really? I'm surprised.

Yes lume technology their forte - but their watches seem to be quite popular on some forums.
Mostly military inspired
w/Panny and B&R homage offerings (with a twist)

http://lum-tec.com/

after 72 hours working, I'm not in very sharp condition, but mostly I have to agree with wise words yamahaki said. But still, maybe because of being so new in watch world and I haven't seen probably 99,9% of those watches in real life, I like most of boutique watches. Annoying thing is that there seems to be less and less new ideas, they are just copying each other and some of them have horrible websites ( good, that Zinex changed their website with name, old one was just a catastrophe). I think manufactures like Deep Blue and Halios will survive, because of cheaper prices and good value they offer. Not so sure about Benarus, if they won't come up with something new, they will drown with Megalodon. Zixen, Kremke, Kazimon etc, they seems to be made for middle class, but really are just too expensive, so some of them die out. MIIK - interesting how long they will live with homages? So most of these companies, who's watches are cheaper than 600 usd or something very special will survive.

I feel really bad because of Noah, he made something great and different, but in my opinion was late about year. Year ago it would have been selling like an animal for 750, but now everybody is complaining about price (even I think, that in price range between 500-600 it would be much more popular, but again, I don't know real manufacturing costs and how much work is involved there...I guess lot).

check out this new one http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=370069 and what do you think, do they survive?

ps! I don't think there are many forums, where we could discuss topics like that,so Thank you Anomaly

I apologize already in advance if I told complete bull###t, but these were just some thoughts from overworked person

jaw wrote:

Anomaly wrote:

jaw wrote:

Interesting stuff...
Zinex: Totally Agree - I would have more were it not for the price.

Curious where you guys would put LUM-TEC in this mess.
Do you think they'll make it?
Are they a worthwhile brand?

Not TOO familiar with the brand but is LUME their main claim to fame?

Really? I'm surprised.

Yes lume technology their forte - but their watches seem to be quite popular on some forums.
Mostly military inspired
w/Panny and B&R homage offerings (with a twist)

[url=http://lum-tec.com/

http://lum-tec.com/[/quote[/url]]

IMO - Lum-Tec is currently overpriced. I do like their "M series" designs, but the only way that I will pick up one is preowned.


To address Sean's point:

Benaurs - will make it because they have a pretty hard core following over at 3T - the designs are pretty nice & pre order prices aren't too bad either - The downside is the questions of the parts sourcing and the quality of the components. I probably will not buy another new, but for the right price I would pick up a Moray.

Bochette - I am not a fan of this brand and do not like the designs that the company has come out with lately. Not sure if this one will last since it is very much like Benarus and something has to give.

Dievas - I have owned two. I still own the Vortex, which I bought new. I think it was a very good deal and the quality of the watch and packaging was very good. I think the company will survive. I am not sure if I will be keeping my Vortex, I may want to sell or trade for a Doxa 750T...on the fence though because it is very comfortable!!

Bali Hai - don't know much about the quality of the watches, but I like the designs. Hopefully they will survive.


There are so many more...lets hear what others have to say....

I honestly don't really know how most of the micro-brands are doing !
Still it would seem that people will not want to spend much more on
these watches this year. I actually like the whole idea behind these
companies though. Having a small independent watch company that
can have it's own watches sounds pretty awesome ! However, I
think that micro brands were supposed to be another "lower priced",
good quality option for people, over the more expensive big brands.
Unfortunately, they seem to have gotten more and more expensive
over time. So that, along with clone designs, and a bad economy, has
created a problem for the micro-brands I guess. Unless, they realize
that people DON'T want to spend BIG BRAND prices on micro-brand
watches, things just might get worse for some of them. Also, you
have to wonder why some of the micro-brand watches reach well
over $1000, and others manage to stay somewhere around $500 or
so !..It's confusing because these micro-brands are supposed to be
directly sold to the customer while at the same time not paying for
advertising ! Isn't this supposed to make them cheaper ?..Evidently
people have realized THIS ! Now they just decide to buy "less expensive"
watches from BIG brands ! It's kind of strange, but NOW people can
just buy BIG brand watches for the same prices or less than the micro-
brand watches. It's an ironic turn around really. Unless, many of the
micro-brands come back to earth with their pricing though, people will
most likely keep staying away from them. I'd like to see them lower
prices, make more designs, and stay in business ! Unfortunately
it seems like many of them don't want to do that, and that's too bad
for all of us !

I think the pita will make it.Its a concept watch brought to life and for this,price is subjective.I'm pretty sure its worth it regardless of the service requirements.
lumtec? not since their prices went north of 600 with a miyota in it.Screw that.I can get kent to lume the crap out of any watch I own and save afew bucks.
benarus? boschett? dievas?orsa?this is how I really see it, no bullshit on this one.These companies will die and all that bought them will get burned in the end.
Why? 100% contract watches.what factory made them? did any of these companies figure in parts for servicing? movements don't figure in on this one as any watchmaker can fix and service them.I'm talking about parts.cases,bezels,crowns,crystals, any custom parts that can't be gotten from a catalog.I think most who buy them understand this to a point, own them for awhile then sell them when the novelty wears off.But in 5 years and these are needing service or parts, where are they? nowhere.you bought the watch.You didn't pay for after care years down the road.You now have a fucking paper weight.The ones who figured this out years ago own Rolex, breitling,omega,tag heuer,zenith.Why? because these are timeless.They get passed down to the next generation.Try that with a fly by night micro brand.for brands that failed 50 years ago but were very popular were picked up by aftermarket companies who make parts to keep them running today.But thats for known brands that sold thousands of watches, not a few hundred.

AtomicTom wrote:

I honestly don't really know how most of the micro-brands are doing !
Still it would seem that people will not want to spend much more on
these watches this year. I actually like the whole idea behind these
companies though. Having a small independent watch company that
can have it's own watches sounds pretty awesome ! However, I
think that micro brands were supposed to be another "lower priced",
good quality option for people, over the more expensive big brands.
Unfortunately, they seem to have gotten more and more expensive
over time. So that, along with clone designs, and a bad economy, has
created a problem for the micro-brands I guess. Unless, they realize
that people DON'T want to spend BIG BRAND prices on micro-brand
watches, things just might get worse for some of them. Also, you
have to wonder why some of the micro-brand watches reach well
over $1000, and others manage to stay somewhere around $500 or
so !..It's confusing because these micro-brands are supposed to be
directly sold to the customer while at the same time not paying for
advertising ! Isn't this supposed to make them cheaper ?..Evidently
people have realized THIS ! Now they just decide to buy "less expensive"
watches from BIG brands ! It's kind of strange, but NOW people can
just buy BIG brand watches for the same prices or less than the micro-
brand watches. It's an ironic turn around really. Unless, many of the
micro-brands come back to earth with their pricing though, people will
most likely keep staying away from them. I'd like to see them lower
prices, make more designs, and stay in business ! Unfortunately
it seems like many of them don't want to do that, and that's too bad
for all of us !

those small forum sponsored brands with the high prices with no advertising costs? they only produce small quantities.for the ones on wus,how else are you going to pay the 5400 euros for that forum without figuring it in for the selling price? didn't think it was that high to get sponsored? reality check.pay another company like fricker to produce your watch and get slapped with a per unit cost of 875.00,then pay for shipping,warranty, forum costs and suddenly that dream of making an affordable watch got crushed with reality.

yamahaki wrote:

AtomicTom wrote:

I honestly don't really know how most of the micro-brands are doing !
Still it would seem that people will not want to spend much more on
these watches this year. I actually like the whole idea behind these
companies though. Having a small independent watch company that
can have it's own watches sounds pretty awesome ! However, I
think that micro brands were supposed to be another "lower priced",
good quality option for people, over the more expensive big brands.
Unfortunately, they seem to have gotten more and more expensive
over time. So that, along with clone designs, and a bad economy, has
created a problem for the micro-brands I guess. Unless, they realize
that people DON'T want to spend BIG BRAND prices on micro-brand
watches, things just might get worse for some of them. Also, you
have to wonder why some of the micro-brand watches reach well
over $1000, and others manage to stay somewhere around $500 or
so !..It's confusing because these micro-brands are supposed to be
directly sold to the customer while at the same time not paying for
advertising ! Isn't this supposed to make them cheaper ?..Evidently
people have realized THIS ! Now they just decide to buy "less expensive"
watches from BIG brands ! It's kind of strange, but NOW people can
just buy BIG brand watches for the same prices or less than the micro-
brand watches. It's an ironic turn around really. Unless, many of the
micro-brands come back to earth with their pricing though, people will
most likely keep staying away from them. I'd like to see them lower
prices, make more designs, and stay in business ! Unfortunately
it seems like many of them don't want to do that, and that's too bad
for all of us !

those small forum sponsored brands with the high prices with no advertising costs? they only produce small quantities.for the ones on wus,how else are you going to pay the 5400 euros for that forum without figuring it in for the selling price? didn't think it was that high to get sponsored? reality check.pay another company like fricker to produce your watch and get slapped with a per unit cost of 875.00,then pay for shipping,warranty, forum costs and suddenly that dream of making an affordable watch got crushed with reality.

It's evidently VERY complicated trying to keep prices down with some of the micro-brands.
There is alot going on behind the scenes I guess. It's upsetting because maybe "if" they
could or were able to lower prices, we wouldn't have to see any of them disappear. We
could just worry about whether we liked a design or were thinking of buying a particular
new watch from one of them. I would like to add some micro-brand watches to my
collection in the future. Hopefully all of the companies stick around for a long time !

Here is some more light...

ONLY FORUM PEOPLE KNOW MICRO-BRANDS and we are but a SMALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL percentage of "the buying public."

I would say it is safe to say MANY more "ONE WATCH OWNERS" have heard of Rolex, Breitling, Tag, Omega and would put money into them before EVER considering a Micro-Brand...

camouflage wrote:

I feel really bad because of Noah, he made something great and different, but in my opinion was late about year. Year ago it would have been selling like an animal for 750, but now everybody is complaining about price (even I think, that in price range between 500-600 it would be much more popular, but again, I don't know real manufacturing costs and how much work is involved there...I guess lot).

Can be expensive if you handle a lot of the design and engineering yourself, or cheap if you are sourcing the entire watch from a Chinese manufacturer like millionsmart. (although they will get you with the MOQ)

Shed no tear for Noah, even if the Tsunami sells at a slower pace because of the economy, I'm sure his parts and mod business will maintain at a steady pace.