Forum brands in generalities

1st forum brand was the Dreadnaught by eddie platts then Ocean7.Everyone was excited to be a part of the design process and I suppose thats where this took off
and has built up momentum over the years.The 2nd brand was Bathys and we cheered John when he went retail.We watched this
unfold on watchuseek.

Ocean has kept a steady stream of new designs and watches,including adding an old marquee AirNautic.
Then Kenzo,Korsbek,Kremke,Dwatch,Benarus,Zinex and a host of others.
These 1st forum brands were made by, in the case of precista,Fricker.Same for Kenzo,Korsbek,Kremke.Ocean7 used Catin and Cee in
Switzerland for the LM-1.Bathys? All swiss made.Some of these watches turned into very collectable time pieces while others didn't.


One thing they all had in common was quality in materials,movements and workmanship.Thats pretty much where it ended though.
Alon,the owner of Dwatch came out with a new concept on designing your own watch using preconfigured parts choices.

Joe Sadri introduced Zinex,now Zixen.Using Swiss movements with watches assembled in asia,but being strictly controlled by Joe for
quality gave us another cool brand.Joe continues to expand the brand and models offered.

But this past year theres been an explosion of micro brands using the same cases.Only differences is movements,dials,finishes,hand sets.
All are in a similar price range from 350.00 to 700.00.From the lowest to the highest price in this catagory,it ends up being
whether you want to pay for the name and the hype.We've seen design stealing and turned a blind eye to it because we
wanted to pay less for a watch.We are to blame for this.Had the members from the various forums put the cost aside and
voted for honesty,50% of these companies woudn't be in business today.

So thats the way I see it today.I've decided to go with brand watches.I think my money is better spent by buying watches
from Citizen,Seiko,Hamilton,Accutron in this price range.

These forum companies,while unique all share the same flaws.They only produce small runs.They don't spend years in refining
models,invest in new materials.And they all fail because they don't have there own facilities to accomplish this.

In twenty years,the only thing on these small brands that can be serviced is the movement.There certainly won't be
any case parts or crowns,seals,crystals and stems.

One thing I've learned over the past 8 years in collecting watches is theres nothing better then brand name watches.
I can pick any brand watch from my displays and see,feel,and wear the quality without concerning myself with wearing them
out or scratching them,because I know that at anytime,I can get them serviced and repaired by the companies that
made them.

Regardless of where you are in your collecting,at some point you'll come full circle to what you started with and it won't be a forum brand
or any TV brands.

There's probably not any ONE RIGHT way to collect.

We're all going to buy for different reasons AT DIFFERENT TIMES in our life as collectors.

Like Doc says, but what you like.

I used to say, I can afford a Panerai, that is so much money...

Well then I looked a my watch box, 100+ Zodiacs at an average of $100 or more? Do the math...

AND NO ONE here is saying you have to have a Panerai or a Breitling or a Kobold or a Rolex to have a good watch...

But JUST because you decide you would rather have a few higher priced watches over many lower priced ones, does not make you a SNOB either...

Collect by YOUR standards and no one else's...

I've done it both ways and for me it's peace of mind to own brand watches I know will be around for a long time . That being said there are alot of micro brands doing some pretty cool stuff! Buy what you like but just don't trash someone or call them snobs if they went in a different direction than you did. Would be real boring if we all liked the same stuff!!

My entire post wasn't about bashing brands or being snobbish.Just my own assessment of what I've noticed.
Nothing in there about highend brands either.I mentioned Seiko and Citizen.Look at the various forums out there
and see what happens with micro brands each time a new release is done.Its like clock work.I'm not saying they are bad watches.
I think I own more of them than most.But with that being said,
micro brands are treated like a novelty.people buy them,wear them for afew weeks then put them up on the sales corners
and go hunting for another one.Nobody outside of the wis community knows about them and 99.9% of the population
look at their cell phone for the time.

I've tended to agree with Sean's view on which watches to buy and have stayed away, mostly, from Micro brands. There are a few exceptions in my watchbox. Also, the brands he mentioned specifically are considered Broad Spectrum companies that offer watches at a HUGE array of price points. Seiko offers watches from $50 to $500k and puts quality IMHO into each of them. Citizen hasn't got the upper end as high but does have watches that go from $25 to $25000 in its inventory (and I am open to learning about even higher end Citizen watches). But they all offer after sales support for years for each piece.

I own a Bernhardt and really like it. For the time being Fred has the best reputation for CS of any micro I know of anywhere. But, once parts are gone they are likely gone for his models. He also has the most economically priced swiss movement micro brand watches out there. On balance I think owning the Bernhardt is a good idea for me now.

That said, when I started out I bought Ultra Affordables with no intention of servicing them. That was not a consideration for me. I had 10-20 watches that I had <$1500 in at time. I still own the Seikos that fell in that category because they are quality watches that can be serviced and will last a lifetime. But the process of going from Ultra Affordables to other brands (Japanese, Swiss, German) has taught me a lot about watches, movements, steel technology, etc.

Buy what you like. Keep what you love. Don't spend too much. As long as you follow those three simple rules you should never listen to what anybody else says about your watches.

Anomaly wrote:

AND NO ONE here is saying you have to have a Panerai or a Breitling or a Kobold or a Rolex to have a good watch...

Love that you included KOBOLD in this list.

matt.wu wrote:

Anomaly wrote:

AND NO ONE here is saying you have to have a Panerai or a Breitling or a Kobold or a Rolex to have a good watch...

Love that you included KOBOLD in this list.

...and Breitling and Rolex...



and I have my Seiko, etc, as well.

I've already experienced some trouble with Micro Brand servicing. Couldn't find one of 3 qualified local watchmakers that would replace a Zinex Heliox bezel insert. They (rightfully) wouldn't take the risk on the unknown brand without having the specs - which Zixen would not provide. So, I had to send it back to Zixen - and they took care of it just fine.

Still, I'm glad to have the recent Micro Brand watches that I do. Lum-Tec, Deep Blue, and Zinex. But I've come to the same conclusion in terms of the known risk, and I'm more reluctant as a result.

Can't say I won't buy any more Micro's - like Trevor said, some are just too damn cool. Probably another Deep Blue and/or Lum-Tec in my future. Probably not Zixen though, personally think they are over priced.

jaw wrote:

I've already experienced some trouble with Micro Brand servicing. Couldn't find one of 3 qualified local watchmakers that would replace a Zinex Heliox bezel insert. They (rightfully) wouldn't take the risk on the unknown brand without having the specs - which Zixen would not provide. So, I had to send it back to Zixen - and they took care of it just fine.

Still, I'm glad to have the recent Micro Brand watches that I do. Lum-Tec, Deep Blue, and Zinex. But I've come to the same conclusion in terms of the known risk, and I'm more reluctant as a result.

Can't say I won't buy any more Micro's - like Trevor said, some are just too damn cool. Probably another Deep Blue and/or Lum-Tec in my future. Probably not Zixen though, personally think they are over priced.

Would the group here still consider LumTec a "micro" brand? when does one graduate out of that label?

Well these watches are not what i would call Forum brands as such either.
Some were designed using the forums but not all. Micro brands would be a bit fairer to some.
Forums are a marketing tool, which Kobold is a good example of.
Who is to say whether or not a company started now, using the forums to sell in the very beginning will not be here in 10 years, or 20?
Like you say, its about retail so the customer can try it on, but we all have to start somewhere.
I have started Aegir watches, and i had reasons for starting it other than money believe it or not. I planned to make 50 watches to use myself, and sell to colleagues of mine to get my investment back. I am a commercial diver for many years now, wore a Pannerai, but it lacks something and i designed mine while sitting in the dive bell.
I was not even going to start a company except i wanted to get some money back that i payed out.
So, things changed and i am here now, like many others before me.
The reason for 50 watches? well they cost a lot to produce as mine will be made in Germany. At this stage we have a German casemaker, Swiss 2892 movement, Austrian straps, and the dials , hands and crowns are still being sorted out. It may happen that one of those or perhaps two comes out of Asia, it may not. But either way 50 watches like this costs a heap and i only have so much money.
Its wrong to fund a company using other peoples money, so no pre-orders!

But fast forward to today, my watches are under way (sort of) i am investing a decent sum of money and certainly time and effort too. I am not planning to fail! I plan to be here in 20 years, and that includes a role on the forums too as one should not forget their humble beginnings.

So i have come full circle from a different point to yours, i went and designed the watch i wanted to wear, because my overpriced brand name watch came up short and undoubtedly has an Asian part or two in it.

[quote="TVDinner]



Would the group here still consider LumTec a "micro" brand? when does one graduate out of that label?[/quote]

I would think that you are still a micro brand until you produce in bigger quantities and you sell in retail, or AD's, and not just online. I think that is what constitues a "micro brand". George Fox says he sells in stores, Im thinking mainly boutique stores, but not sure, dont know what stores he actually sells them in, so I dont know if I still consider him a micro brand or not. I would think that any company that soley sells there watches online and can not be found in stores, would be considered a micro brand , im guessing.......or a Tv brand as well......Like Renato . I could be way off though as well..

There is no right or wrong way in my opinion. I do take issue with anyone stating their assessment as a matter of fact though.

LumiNox is sponsoring a car at the Pikes Peak Hill Climb this week.

You really can't predict the longevity of these micro-brands, and given that, I don't want to invest much money in them. If they have a common movement service isn't an issue, but the possible lack of availability of case and dial parts would dissuade me from making a serious investment.


Now if you give me a great design (like the Helson Baby Plofprof prototype), you may be able to get me to part with a few hundred bucks.