B&R

I don't think I've seen a Bell & Ross posted here before. What is it about these watches that seems like everyone likes them but you don't see them much?

For me it's mostly the $$$.
Also the flatness of the cases.
Love the instrument dials, designs, and case backs.
So much so that I decided to go with Lum-Tec instead.
Solved my need for a B&R style watch + both my $$$ and flat case aversions.

barnbuilder wrote:

I don't think I've seen a Bell & Ross posted here before. What is it about these watches that seems like everyone likes them but you don't see them much?

I'm pretty sure they have the same kind of CULT FOLLOWING as those who like Panerais...

...I would not mind having one due to the square case design (which most have).

IMO the BR-01 looks like a bathroom tile on someone's wrist, and if I really want to blow $5k on a glorified ETA 2893 then I'd rather spend it on another brand, but that's just me.

Too big!

I've just never really cared for many of their models. There's that and I happen to think they are way overpriced. Some people obviously love them.

The "aircraft instrument panel" pieces are too big and homely.

I think we probably don't see them because they cost
a bit much, like Jaw is saying ! If they were less expensive,
we would probably be seeing them ALOT more often here !
Their cases, dials, hands, along with all around exciting
designs are enjoyable to see. However, there are many
companies that make some pretty similar looking quality
watches for much less, so we get to see, and enjoy those
watches instead ! Would be interesting if B&R came
out with another collection in the future that was more
affordable, but still eye-catching at the same time !

I agree Tom, cost is probably the main reason
I do like the square watches but 44 would be the max diameter on these for me.

barnbuilder wrote:

I agree Tom, cost is probably the main reason
I do like the square watches but 44 would be the max diameter on these for me.

Maybe this "new less expensive collection" could be 44mm, and below Ron !
They probably would have lesser movements in them, to bring the price down
also !..Just a thought !

it would be cool Tom.

consistency works well for some watch companies and maybe should be changed for others, but that could also be the death of it

barnbuilder wrote:

it would be cool Tom.

consistency works well for some watch companies and maybe should be changed for others, but that could also be the death of it

That's a REALLY GOOD point Ron ! I guess we'll have to wait and see if B&R stays with what has
already been working, or wants to try something new at some point also !

I think the BR02 pro dail is one of the most original outstanding designs out there. I have always wanted one.

I like the round ones.....but not the 'signature' square ones, just not on my must have list.

I had a BR02 Pro Dial and it wears fairly small for a 44MM case as it is 49MM lug to lug. The rubber strap that it came on was very comfortable and the blue lume was pretty cool.

Retail was 4K and for the price it does come with a fairly pedestrian Sellita SW20 movement...

I would by pre-owned as these watches take a beating on the re-sale market.

As you know, B&R developed from Sinn....For a company that is so often criticized, it is amazing as to how many current brands now offer a watch that is a carbon copy of the BR01 and or BR03...

great dial

barnbuilder wrote:

great dial

Size...costs?

The BR02 above is a 44MM case (lug to lug 49MM)
Ret- $4K...

Solid diver...

If it had in-house movement it would be $7K and probably more
highly rated...

I've seen them around 4k, size is 44mm

http://exquisitetimepieces.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=mts&Product_Code=BR02STEELArabic&Category_Code=BR02-Instrument44mm

http://www.google.com/products?q=Bell%20%26%20Ross%20BR02%20Instrument%201000M&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wf

Lussori in CA. is one of the largest AD's if not the largest around.
They usually give pretty good deals...

That watch totally ROCKS!

B&R makes a Carbon case and Chrono version that I think is even cooler

Holy COW, those BR02's are really excellent !
The case shapes couldn't be any cooler, and how
about the dials with various number, and marker
combinations ?! Some of those colors are off the
charts !!!..Hard to pick between the regular
stainless steel, or the carbon ! ..Thanks
for those links Ron, along with info everyone !

jimyritz wrote:

Lussori in CA. is one of the largest AD's if not the largest around.
They usually give pretty good deals...

lussori is in carmel and they might give a deal online but you walk in the store and they dont work much off list! B&R is a cool idea(the whole cockpit gauge thing) but are you really getting what you pay for?

Hey Trevor,

Thought they moved to Los Altos....Anyway, you may be right but I can only go by the business I have done with them--very competitive pricing...

Maybe the more you buy the better pricing you get..

Mike

B&R are over priced, overhyped, fashionista watches. The movements are pedestrian and the price is outrageously over the top. The B&R 02 dive watch is pretty solid looking, but still too much mulachi for this guy to spend on a non in house movement. The instrument series watches are way too big and square unless you are using it as a belt buckle.

DMB wrote:

B&R are over priced, overhyped, fashionista watches. The movements are pedestrian and the price is outrageously over the top. The B&R 02 dive watch is pretty solid looking, but still too much mulachi for this guy to spend on a non in house movement. The instrument series watches are way too big and square unless you are using it as a belt buckle.

Wassup dude!

Sincere question here...based on your comment, would you put Panerai and Kobold in the same category as B&R?

Anomaly wrote:

DMB wrote:

B&R are over priced, overhyped, fashionista watches. The movements are pedestrian and the price is outrageously over the top. The B&R 02 dive watch is pretty solid looking, but still too much mulachi for this guy to spend on a non in house movement. The instrument series watches are way too big and square unless you are using it as a belt buckle.

Wassup dude!

Sincere question here...based on your comment, would you put Panerai and Kobold in the same category as B&R?

Yea, pretty much. Don't get me wrong, Panerai and Kobold make some great looking and performing stuff. They are just wayyyy overpriced. Look at Panerai. First of all, their whole "history" is pretty much manufactured. Very few watches were ever made and issued to the Italian Navy. The company was dead until Stallone got the interest in Panerai up. Now, they charge a ton of money for unique looking watches with basic movements (for the most part). Kobold I understand even less. What makes them any different from some of the better made micros? Korsbeck, DOXA, Kremke,and a few other top shelf micro brands. SUre, they are attractive, well built watches but the price is ridiculous.

BTW, I mentioned DOXA here. From all I've read (between the lines) the DOXA of today is NOT the DOXA of old days. The name was resurrected to be used with the Sub series (which also from my understanding are not 100% SWISS by any means). I'm not even sure if the DOXA subs are related to the DOXA that sells quartz and other non diver watches on the European market. Again, a lot of this is hearsay and speculation, but it makes for a convincing argument when you start "getting to know" the company that runs the WUS forum.

DMB wrote:

Anomaly wrote:

DMB wrote:

B&R are over priced, overhyped, fashionista watches. The movements are pedestrian and the price is outrageously over the top. The B&R 02 dive watch is pretty solid looking, but still too much mulachi for this guy to spend on a non in house movement. The instrument series watches are way too big and square unless you are using it as a belt buckle.

Wassup dude!

Sincere question here...based on your comment, would you put Panerai and Kobold in the same category as B&R?

Yea, pretty much. Don't get me wrong, Panerai and Kobold make some great looking and performing stuff. They are just wayyyy overpriced. Look at Panerai. First of all, their whole "history" is pretty much manufactured. Very few watches were ever made and issued to the Italian Navy. The company was dead until Stallone got the interest in Panerai up. Now, they charge a ton of money for unique looking watches with basic movements (for the most part). Kobold I understand even less. What makes them any different from some of the better made micros? Korsbeck, DOXA, Kremke,and a few other top shelf micro brands. SUre, they are attractive, well built watches but the price is ridiculous.

BTW, I mentioned DOXA here. From all I've read (between the lines) the DOXA of today is NOT the DOXA of old days. The name was resurrected to be used with the Sub series (which also from my understanding are not 100% SWISS by any means). I'm not even sure if the DOXA subs are related to the DOXA that sells quartz and other non diver watches on the European market. Again, a lot of this is hearsay and speculation, but it makes for a convincing argument when you start "getting to know" the company that runs the WUS forum.

I can see your point on Kobold and Panerai. Do you think they are PURELY actor driven brands (Stallone and Galdofini)?

Based on your assessment, will these brands eventually fade away?

Good conversation btw...

Anomaly wrote:

DMB wrote:

Anomaly wrote:

DMB wrote:

B&R are over priced, overhyped, fashionista watches. The movements are pedestrian and the price is outrageously over the top. The B&R 02 dive watch is pretty solid looking, but still too much mulachi for this guy to spend on a non in house movement. The instrument series watches are way too big and square unless you are using it as a belt buckle.

Wassup dude!

Sincere question here...based on your comment, would you put Panerai and Kobold in the same category as B&R?

Yea, pretty much. Don't get me wrong, Panerai and Kobold make some great looking and performing stuff. They are just wayyyy overpriced. Look at Panerai. First of all, their whole "history" is pretty much manufactured. Very few watches were ever made and issued to the Italian Navy. The company was dead until Stallone got the interest in Panerai up. Now, they charge a ton of money for unique looking watches with basic movements (for the most part). Kobold I understand even less. What makes them any different from some of the better made micros? Korsbeck, DOXA, Kremke,and a few other top shelf micro brands. SUre, they are attractive, well built watches but the price is ridiculous.

BTW, I mentioned DOXA here. From all I've read (between the lines) the DOXA of today is NOT the DOXA of old days. The name was resurrected to be used with the Sub series (which also from my understanding are not 100% SWISS by any means). I'm not even sure if the DOXA subs are related to the DOXA that sells quartz and other non diver watches on the European market. Again, a lot of this is hearsay and speculation, but it makes for a convincing argument when you start "getting to know" the company that runs the WUS forum.

I can see your point on Kobold and Panerai. Do you think they are PURELY actor driven brands (Stallone and Galdofini)?

Based on your assessment, will these brands eventually fade away?

Good conversation btw...

Panerai is here to stay I think. They make great looking watches, and have a huge following. My personal theory is that when a watch starts getting faked and hommaged, it's here to stay. Like I said, I dig Panerai and would wear one in a heartbeat. I just feel like I'd be getting ripped off if I bought one new.

Kobold I'm not so sure about. I think the whole Adventure Man marketing has a lot to do with their success. They are also good looking watches with solid movements. They are just too high priced IMO for what you get under the hood. That and the lume blows.

I'm not so sure that either one is an actor driven brand. At least not anymore. You don't hear a lot about Panerai/Stallone anymore, at least not on a non Panerai specific forum. I think that ship has sailed. They are established well enough now that they can cut Sly to the curb and he'd be forgotten. I never really associated Kobold with Gadolfini that much at all so it's hard to say on that one.

DMB wrote:

Kobold I'm not so sure about. I think the whole Adventure Man marketing has a lot to do with their success. They are also good looking watches with solid movements. They are just too high priced IMO for what you get under the hood. That and the lume blows.

Kobold is working on their own movement, but its based on the pedestrian Forster 197 which is a low-beat 18000 bph. They bought the design from Forster who decided to get out of the watch business and concentrate on surgical instruments. Wonder how much they are going to want for their watches with the "in house" movement.

Seem's Michael Gets bored and side tracked and with just getting married but still think its honorable that he is trying to build a US made watch but i've got questions about the movement co he bought to mark! Alan Panerai is not going anywhere, they are too big and have a huge share of the market! Kobold and a whole lot of others would go out before the big P!!

cali kid wrote:

Seem's Michael Gets bored and side tracked and with just getting married but still think its honorable that he is trying to build a US made watch but i've got questions about the movement co he bought to mark! Alan Panerai is not going anywhere, they are too big and have a huge share of the market! Kobold and a whole lot of others would go out before the big P!!

I respect that KOBOLD is American too...

...would be cool if he went all american....case, movement, even use some old Hamiltons like Ron did!

he has an all american piece right now alan but the price is out of the usa if not the world! think its a reworked german movement and some say it should say made in America or pittsburg pa.!

think they are called the spirit of america series and start at like 5600.00. it is 44mm 87% american

In time for its 10-year anniversary, the Kobold Watch Company launched its most significant contribution to American horology and its new flagship model: The Spirit of America Automatic.

Its origins are a nod to the esteemed history of American watchmaking. With over 87% of the watch manufactured in the United States, this timekeeper represents a bold return to U.S. wristwatch manufacturing.* The Spirit of America Automatic is the first Kobold to be designed, engineered, manufactured and assembled in the United States. Its distinctive Soarway case is entirely U.S.-made. Herein lies perhaps the biggest achievement of Kobold's unique and groundbreaking Made-in-USA project.

Not only is the well-known Soarway case, including its bezel, mid-case and caseback, manufactured in Pennsylvania. Even the crown, crown tube, lug bars and screws are American-made. The raw material from which each case component is milled is stainless steel. The signature domed sapphire crystal is also grown, cut and polished in the U.S. Hence, the Spirit of America Automatic's case is truly 100% U.S.-made.

In early 2006, Kobold committed itself to assembling all of its watches in the U.S. and in 2007 ventured to manufacture a timepiece that consists mainly of U.S.-made components. This strategy is a significant departure from the way in which other industry leaders in the high-end watch segment produce their watches. However, not all components of the Spirit of America Automatic are American-made.


At the core of the Spirit of America Automatic beats a self-winding manufacture (in-house) movement, the remaining stock of which is exclusively available to Kobold. Caliber K.2651, an automatic-windingl 21-jewel movement, features a power reserve of 42 hours and bi-directional winding rotor. The movement itself was originally made in Germany, but re-worked stateside. over 86% of its actual value is of U.S. origin.** The base caliber, a Forster movement, features polished blued-steel screws that have been heat-treated. This process is in keeping with the traditional school of watchmaking, as opposed to the modern chemical treatment process used to elicit the blue hue of screws destined for more generic watches.

The winding rotor is manufactured in the U.S. On special request, the rotor will feature hand-applied guilloche decoration, as well as 18-K gold plating. Each movement is modified, decorated, assembled, adjusted, and tested in Kobold's Pittsburgh workshops. The K.2651, while straightforward in design, is a reliable and accurate movement ideal for the minimalist Spirit of America timekeeper. The watch's Bauhaus-inspired design is complemented by a hand-made, galvanized copper dial with either Jet Black or Arctic Blue sunburst finish. The dial features brushed stainless steel appliques, over which a pair of brushed steel hands indicate time. Both the dial and hands are legible even in complete darkness thanks to being treated with the latest-generation SuperLuminova luminous material. The dial is proudly signed "PITTSBURGH, PENNSYLVANIA".

However, the Spirit of America Automatic is more than just a pretty face. Like all Kobold watches, it was designed to be durable and withstand the elements. Kobold deemed that merely being water-resistant to a depth of 330 feet (100 m.), antimagnetic, and shock-resistant per DIN regulations -a stringent set of criteria fulfilled by only few wristwatches of modern production- would not suffice for the company's first American wristwatch. The team at Kobold's Pittsburgh facilities intended to showcase their new creation as being better engineered and more carefully manufactured than the company's Swiss and German-made watches. A test of a different kind would have to be devised.

Few watches have been tested in such extreme environments such as on the summit of Mount Everest. It was a matter of coincidence that in 2008, when the first Spirit of America Automatic prototype was at long last assembled, that the company's founder, Michael Kobold, was on an expedition to Mt. Everest with explorer Ranulph Fiennes. The prototype was thus dispatched from Pittsburgh to Everest Base Camp in the high Himalaya.

After careful examination by Kobold, Fiennes and fellow Kobold brand ambassador Kenton Cool, the prototype was further tested on the mountain. The watch performed flawlessly, even at high altitude and in very cold weather. To conduct the ultimate test, the prototype was later worn by Cool on his summit climb. The Spirit of America Automatic passed this real-life test with flying colors in terms of its reliability and ruggedness. In May 2008, the official order to commence serial production was given directly from Everest Base Camp.

(For more on the 2008 expedition to Mt. Everest, please click here.)

On request, an American-made leather strap by artisan Greg Stevens can be added to this watch. The Spirit of America Automatic comes on a genuine alligator strap and arrives in a wooden collector's box. Like all Kobold timepieces featuring U.S.-made components, the Spirit of America Automatic comes with a 10-year warranty against material defects and faulty craftsmanship.




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