Homage Watches

Musing as I drove to work today.

Didn't use to mind "homage" watches, which is just a nice way of saying knock off. Then I remembered the reason I sold my Invicta 9938 (blue dial/two tone bracelet) - because it looked like a Rolex Sub and I didn't want to be perceived as a poser in my business environment.

That rule still applies, I think, but the bigger issue for me is theft of intellectual property. Why reward a dim-wit who can't create something on his/her own and punish a genius?

From now on, knock offs (no matter what you call them) are a no-no for me - at least for future purchases (I have too many to trash them but I suppose I can sell).

BORROWING certain elements from one watch to another is ok...

If it is a CARBON COPY sans the name on the dial, well it's like TRACING the Mona Lisa and calling it ART....

I disagree. I love the look of, say, the Submariner but probably will never pay that much for a watch. I have no problem going with a 8926, or for the Explorer look, going for a Debaufre:


And it's not just LOOKS I'm concnerned with, there has to be SOME level of quality. Last fall I discovered Alpha to be complete garbage. "Looking like it" just wasn't enough.

I'm still on the hunt for a Marina Militaire, just to see if I can get to like the Panerai look on my wrist. If I'm crazy about it, the Panny hunt may begin. If not, only $150 or less at stake.

That is a great looking watch and on my casual "Want List" until I took my new pledge this morning.
That pledge may be hard to keep!

FreeDive wrote:

I disagree. I love the look of, say, the Submariner but probably will never pay that much for a watch. I have no problem going with a 8926, or for the Explorer look, going for a Debaufre:


And it's not just LOOKS I'm concnerned with, there has to be SOME level of quality. Last fall I discovered Alpha to be complete garbage. "Looking like it" just wasn't enough.

I'm still on the hunt for a Marina Militaire, just to see if I can get to like the Panerai look on my wrist. If I'm crazy about it, the Panny hunt may begin. If not, only $150 or less at stake.

Me thinking that regarless of the level of of quality in the execution (in the Debaufre's case a very good one, Invicta's in the other hand are a hit or miss thing) the watch complies almost step by step with Anomaly statement.. it is a carbon copy of the Rolie pepsi GMT, not an homage but a copy, sans the name on the dial ...the fact that we like the rendition looks, may or may not decided to pay for the real thing or have no problems with it for whatever reason/s is irrelevant, still they are stealing the design IMHO

Anomaly wrote:

BORROWING certain elements from one watch to another is ok...

If it is a CARBON COPY sans the name on the dial, well it's like TRACING the Mona Lisa and calling it ART....

boscoe wrote:

That is a great looking watch and on my casual "Want List" until I took my new pledge this morning.
That pledge may be hard to keep!

It's a noble idea Boscoe and I see where you are coming from sir ! However,
I think Alan may have hit this one out of the park !..Similar styles, and looks are
often going to be borrowed or used which seems acceptable. The exact copying
on the other hand with no care in the world is definitely wrong !..So I totally
understand this pledge you are making..it's just that the, " imitation is the highest
form of flattery " thing..has evidently been going on for a long time in the watch
industry. So as long as we can separate the similar to the exact copy themes we
might be O.K...what do you think ?

I love my Marina Militare. Great watch at a price I could afford. I would never ever wear a replica or fake Pan, but I like many of the MM watches.

homage = replica. no suger coating. call a spade a spade. Just because it does not have the name on it is not a reason to call it anything but a replica.

TVDinner wrote:

I love my Marina Militare. Great watch at a price I could afford. I would never ever wear a replica or fake Pan, but I like many of the MM watches.

pretty darn close!!!

AtomicTom wrote:

Anomaly wrote:

BORROWING certain elements from one watch to another is ok...

If it is a CARBON COPY sans the name on the dial, well it's like TRACING the Mona Lisa and calling it ART....

boscoe wrote:

That is a great looking watch and on my casual "Want List" until I took my new pledge this morning.
That pledge may be hard to keep!

It's a noble idea Boscoe and I see where you are coming from sir ! However,
I think Alan may have hit this one out of the park !..Similar styles, and looks are
often going to be borrowed or used which seems acceptable. The exact copying
on the other hand with no care in the world is definitely wrong !..So I totally
understand this pledge you are making..it's just that the, " imitation is the highest
form of flattery " thing..has evidently been going on for a long time in the watch
industry. So as long as we can separate the similar to the exact copy themes we
might be O.K...what do you think ?

Yes, but as an "artiste" I find the theft of intellectual property akin to rape. I would be seriously pissed off if someone ripped off one of my books or articles, changed the font, the color of the cover, a couple chapter headings, a few words here and there then sold it as their own.
On the other hand, there is nothing wrong from learning from Hemmingway (or any other writer) and incorporating the tricks they taught you into your OWN work. Use the tricks, not the actual work.

AtomicTom wrote:

Anomaly wrote:

BORROWING certain elements from one watch to another is ok...

If it is a CARBON COPY sans the name on the dial, well it's like TRACING the Mona Lisa and calling it ART....

boscoe wrote:

That is a great looking watch and on my casual "Want List" until I took my new pledge this morning.
That pledge may be hard to keep!

It's a noble idea Boscoe and I see where you are coming from sir ! However,
I think Alan may have hit this one out of the park !..Similar styles, and looks are
often going to be borrowed or used which seems acceptable. The exact copying
on the other hand with no care in the world is definitely wrong !..So I totally
understand this pledge you are making..it's just that the, " imitation is the highest
form of flattery " thing..has evidently been going on for a long time in the watch
industry. So as long as we can separate the similar to the exact copy themes we
might be O.K...what do you think ?

On that note ... it is a matter of personal taste and the environment we are in... me working in a hospital setting (as an example) and or the people a socialized with after work, I get to see lots and lots of the real deals around me, wearing an Invicta 8926 (again as an example) will sooner or later prompt the nice watch comments and the almost mandatory request for a closer look, ... .. again it goes with the territory in which we are...I feel much more comfortable wearing say, a Croton Super C Sport or a Seiko Monster, both nice solid beaters with no room for pretending ...me thinking that considering funding is not always there (at least not for me) to afford big ticket watches every year there are plenty of original options out there and even true homages in which clues are taking from the originals, without blatantly been a copy...personally, I like to put my dollars and cents together and buy as much original as I can afford, it is a matter of personal preferences at the end of the day.......

boscoe wrote:

That is a great looking watch and on my casual "Want List" until I took my new pledge this morning.
That pledge may be hard to keep!

Dan,

I admire your courage. Perhaps we should develop something like this?



I mean, look at how well temperance worked. Errr, well...we can do better. Mistakes were made but we are aware of them and informed by them. In future safeguards will be in place that prevent a similar issue from arising.

Good luck.

I have become Horologies Answer to Carri Nation!
Oh the humanity...

When I purchased my Moray (now gone) there was discussion of it being a copy of another watch...Here are the pictures, judge for yourselves...

70s Alpha 1000 Meter Deep Sea Automatic Men's Divers



2009 Benarus Moray #2...



http://cgi.ebay.com/70s-Alpha-1000-Meter-Deep-Sea-Automatic-Mens-Divers_W0QQitemZ280319460752QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Jewelery_Watches_Watches_MensWatches_GL?hash=item280319460752&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1326%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

boscoe wrote:

I have become Horologies Answer to Carri Nation!
Oh the humanity...

Suits.

Nice MM TVDinner! That thing barely looks anything like a Panerai! The casual observer certainly would never be fooled. Not that that is what you are trying to do.

Aqua Homer wrote:

Nice MM TVDinner! That thing barely looks anything like a Panerai! The casual observer certainly would never be fooled. Not that that is what you are trying to do.

Mike,

You have earned a

for showing restraint!

Mark, the Benarus sure looks like the alpha!!

koimaster wrote:

homage = replica. no suger coating. call a spade a spade. Just because it does not have the name on it is not a reason to call it anything but a replica.

boscoe wrote:

AtomicTom wrote:

Anomaly wrote:

BORROWING certain elements from one watch to another is ok...

If it is a CARBON COPY sans the name on the dial, well it's like TRACING the Mona Lisa and calling it ART....

boscoe wrote:

That is a great looking watch and on my casual "Want List" until I took my new pledge this morning.
That pledge may be hard to keep!

It's a noble idea Boscoe and I see where you are coming from sir ! However,
I think Alan may have hit this one out of the park !..Similar styles, and looks are
often going to be borrowed or used which seems acceptable. The exact copying
on the other hand with no care in the world is definitely wrong !..So I totally
understand this pledge you are making..it's just that the, " imitation is the highest
form of flattery " thing..has evidently been going on for a long time in the watch
industry. So as long as we can separate the similar to the exact copy themes we
might be O.K...what do you think ?

Yes, but as an "artiste" I find the theft of intellectual property akin to rape. I would be seriously pissed off if someone ripped off one of my books or articles, changed the font, the color of the cover, a couple chapter headings, a few words here and there then sold it as their own.
On the other hand, there is nothing wrong from learning from Hemmingway (or any other writer) and incorporating the tricks they taught you into your OWN work. Use the tricks, not the actual work.

eddiea wrote:

AtomicTom wrote:

Anomaly wrote:

BORROWING certain elements from one watch to another is ok...

If it is a CARBON COPY sans the name on the dial, well it's like TRACING the Mona Lisa and calling it ART....

boscoe wrote:

That is a great looking watch and on my casual "Want List" until I took my new pledge this morning.
That pledge may be hard to keep!

It's a noble idea Boscoe and I see where you are coming from sir ! However,
I think Alan may have hit this one out of the park !..Similar styles, and looks are
often going to be borrowed or used which seems acceptable. The exact copying
on the other hand with no care in the world is definitely wrong !..So I totally
understand this pledge you are making..it's just that the, " imitation is the highest
form of flattery " thing..has evidently been going on for a long time in the watch
industry. So as long as we can separate the similar to the exact copy themes we
might be O.K...what do you think ?

On that note ... it is a matter of personal taste and the environment we are in... me working in a hospital setting (as an example) and or the people a socialized with after work, I get to see lots and lots of the real deals around me, wearing an Invicta 8926 (again as an example) will sooner or later prompt the nice watch comments and the almost mandatory request for a closer look, ... .. again it goes with the territory in which we are...I feel much more comfortable wearing say, a Croton Super C Sport or a Seiko Monster, both nice solid beaters with no room for pretending ...me thinking that considering funding is not always there (at least not for me) to afford big ticket watches every year there are plenty of original options out there and even true homages in which clues are taking from the originals, without blatantly been a copy...personally, I like to put my dollars and cents together and buy as much original as I can afford, it is a matter of personal preferences at the end of the day.......

You guys are making some fantastic points here ! What I am saying..for example
is that I have some Zodiac watches that although..Zodiac, also may have some similarities
to other watches out there ! It might be a dive watch look or aviation theme that is visible
in the industry !..In these cases..it's different IMHO than a full on replica which is meant
to look exactly like some other watch !..If it were up to me I'd have the original companies
and their watches in my collection ! I genuinely respect originality and the artists designs.
I was just saying that there tend to be ideas and themes that spread through the industry.

andrema wrote:

When I purchased my Moray (now gone) there was discussion of it being a copy of another watch...Here are the pictures, judge for yourselves...

70s Alpha 1000 Meter Deep Sea Automatic Men's Divers



2009 Benarus Moray #2...



http://cgi.ebay.com/70s-Alpha-1000-Meter-Deep-Sea-Automatic-Mens-Divers_W0QQitemZ280319460752QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Jewelery_Watches_Watches_MensWatches_GL?hash=item280319460752&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1326%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

exactly..........they all (most all watches)are somewhat "homages" to another watch from another time.

Just a note.

The 70's Alpha is not the same company that bought the name in 1993 and began producing
"homages"


Another example of a small "legit" Swiss company being used by a pretender.

Here's two Sea-Gulls from different eras...

One is a lookalike, a copy but not a fake (from the 80s):



and this one is (to my mind) a true homage (respectful to the original but also fresh and original in it's own right):



Personally, I have no problem with lookalikes or homages, but I think it helps our understanding of the ethics involved if we use more accurate terms to differentiate between a copy (a lookalike), a fake (a straight up theft of shape and brand) and an homage (something that involves more art). I have the most respect for true homages (almost as much respect as I do for almost completely new designs--as much as such a thing is possible), I have less respect but I like some lookalikes, and I hate fakes.

AlbertaTime wrote:

it helps our understanding of the ethics involved if we use more accurate terms to differentiate between a copy (a lookalike), a fake (a straight up theft of shape and brand) and an homage (something that involves more art).

Well put Ron!

I'm thinking real hard about getting the Phantom Seal from Getatwatch,
"Custom Made 45mm Polished Case Black Sandwich Dial with Black Numberals"
(Numberals, hahaha)


on the OxBlood Strap


With these hands:


Price: $85.00

I've seen that watch on another forum, and it looks great.
Here is G.'s watch, (he recommended Getatwatch to me)

(photo credit to G.Curio)

(photo credit to G.Curio)

Someone get G. Curio back over here where REAL watch discussions are going on!

Anomaly wrote:

(photo credit to G.Curio)

Someone get G. Curio back over here where REAL watch discussions are going on!

I'm on it.

I have absolutely NO problems with watches that look just like very expensive ones, but do not include the original's name/logo. Buyers like a certain style - - it's in the public domain, go ahead and produce/market a cheaper version with your own branding. Almost every buyer of the "knock-off" is unlikely to ever be a buyer of the original anyway. My two cents.

By the way, how do you guys like my GMT Master???

Anomaly wrote:

(photo credit to G.Curio)

Someone get G. Curio back over here where REAL watch discussions are going on!

I'll second that.

nismo1 ("fart in a bottle" to Invicta CS) is another candidate but I don't know him well.
Not an homage kinda guy - but has some flat out killer divers, Doxa, Zinex, etc.

jaw wrote:

Anomaly wrote:

(photo credit to G.Curio)

Someone get G. Curio back over here where REAL watch discussions are going on!

I'll second that.

nismo1 ("fart in a bottle" to Invicta CS) is another candidate but I don't know him well.
Not an homage kinda guy - but has some flat out killer divers, Doxa, Zinex, etc.

"Nismo1" is Sean......Yamahaki.

Anomaly wrote:

(photo credit to G.Curio)

Someone get G. Curio back over here where REAL watch discussions are going on!

I just sent him a P.M.
Guy is really cool!
He has alot of fun, and shares his vast knowlege willingly!

Aqua Homer wrote:

jaw wrote:

Anomaly wrote:

(photo credit to G.Curio)

Someone get G. Curio back over here where REAL watch discussions are going on!

I'll second that.

nismo1 ("fart in a bottle" to Invicta CS) is another candidate but I don't know him well.
Not an homage kinda guy - but has some flat out killer divers, Doxa, Zinex, etc.

"Nismo1" is Sean......Yamahaki.

Cool - Thanks. That explains a lot.

Aqua Homer wrote:

"Nismo1" is Sean......Yamahaki.

Also goes by the name "dedward"

cali kid wrote:

TVDinner wrote:

I love my Marina Militare. Great watch at a price I could afford. I would never ever wear a replica or fake Pan, but I like many of the MM watches.

pretty darn close!!!

Is this the same MM company Panerai took to court for copyright infringements? Naples Watch co.? not sure if that lawsuit is still on ...

Here is one of my Homages that I love, it's on a Panatime Strap.




I bought it from DoWatch on eBay, but the went out of business.
That's why I'm going with Getat Watch Co. with my new one.

pacifichrono wrote:

I have absolutely NO problems with watches that look just like very expensive ones, but do not include the original's name/logo. Buyers like a certain style - - it's in the public domain, go ahead and produce/market a cheaper version with your own branding. Almost every buyer of the "knock-off" is unlikely to ever be a buyer of the original anyway. My two cents.

By the way, how do you guys like my GMT Master???

So glad you feel this way.
Homages were the only way for me to satisfy my desire for what was outta my reach.
Invicta Offshore Pro Diver held me over with Omega/Bond emulation till I could get the real thing.

Not my photo


These are holding me over quite well till the real Panny comes along - which may never happen.

IWI Marine Diver


Case: JNL WG Deal
Bracelet: IWI