Sponsers and Forums

I was reading at DWC about a Doxa thread being locked at wus, http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=347850 and got me thinking of how WG's has evolved and there sponsers, since I have been there to see that progression of sponsership. Blogs on watch reviews may also fit into this same category. but how can you really have honest reviews and discussion to inform the buyer of any particular brand when this is what most forums engage in? As an example, I don't think the Seiko threads are shut down from full and open discussion looked over by the ceo of that company.

Just plain wrong! shame on any forum who insults our intelligence to speak freely!

People wanna start making some "easy money" or get a "free watch" for having a brand's banner on their site...

This site isn't ETHICS 101, but IMO, is a free watch or $X amount of dollars worth the INTEGRITY of the site?

As soon as we have a Breitling or a Seiko or a G-shock banner here and are compensated for it in any fashion, then those who don't necessarily hold a brand in the same esteem as the site might for having taken on their banner, then that person loses their ability to even RESPECTFULLY express their true feelings about a brand because that might cost the site owner some money or a free watch...

I REFUSE to pimp out my hobby for my personal gain, not sure many other sites can make that claim...

I agree Alan. The only way that I think it can work on a watch site is if the sight only has informational items! That is the only way there is no personal preference or bias!

This is why I will never participate in a Sponsor's Forum. WUS has many and it is certainly NOT merely Doxa that uses draconian tactics in their forum. I posted my joy at having bought a Prometheus on eBay directly from the company and had my thread deleted, was lectured by the owner, and told that he would go ahead and honor the price - this despite the fact that it was a contract legally entered into under both EU and US law. So, Sponsored Fourm = Complete BS in my mind. My opinion, yours may vary but if they do you're just wrong.

id Rat out any of yous guys for a free watch.....F U

ericf4 wrote:

id Rat out any of yous guys for a free watch.....F U

We know.

good,,,now you know where we stand!!!!

I think there is a time and a venue for communicating in a discussion type atmosphere with a brand owner. Some are very open to design ideas, likes/dislikes, etc. Since getting the BaliHa'i I have participated on the owners Facebook page and shared a few messages back and forth. While I know his ultimate goal is to make sales, he seems genuinely interested in his customers thoughts on his products. I liked him enough to buy a few more straps and a couple of T-Shirts. It's nice to have that avenue from time to time.

this is why the big boys never sponser a forum!! Breitling source. rolex forum, seiko forum are not funded by the brand and they make sure you know it!! Seem's to be the smaller internet sales based companies that pay a fee to sponser a forum. Invicta is the exception to the rule but dont consider them one of the big boys!

Aqua Homer wrote:

I think there is a time and a venue for communicating in a discussion type atmosphere with a brand owner. Some are very open to design ideas, likes/dislikes, etc. Since getting the BaliHa'i I have participated on the owners Facebook page and shared a few messages back and forth. While I know his ultimate goal is to make sales, he seems genuinely interested in his customers thoughts on his products. I liked him enough to buy a few more straps and a couple of T-Shirts. It's nice to have that avenue from time to time.

Mike,

I would point out that you are describing a discussion with the owner, not one with others about the owner and his product. I believe they are two distinct things.

I have had discussions with Omega company reps at a fairly high level, Citizen executives in the US, and several others. They were great and I enjoyed those interactions.

However, talking ABOUT Omega in an Omega paid for forum would be an entirely different experience. My reads of the sponsored fora at WUS for example is that there are incredibly few that don't have a well documented history of out and out censorship and bannings of people that disagree with their marketing materials.

. . . It seems, based on other examples, once you decide to make a living at it . . . . . Well, you are ultimately working for someone else's aganda.

Ask Jim and Michael, they'll tell you . . . . in a round about, disconcerted "your milage may vary" sort of way . . . .

Point is, lessons learned.

Go over to 3T and bash baliha'i and see what happens with the post!! The owner is a great guy but it who is paying to sponser that shields any bad info! think we all know the guy that runs the place and nobody gets away with questioning any sponsership brand!! You will cower in his presence!!

cali kid wrote:

Go over to 3T and bash baliha'i and see what happens with the post!! The owner is a great guy but it who is paying to sponser that shields any bad info! think we all know the guy that runs the place and nobody gets away with questioning any sponsership brand!! You will cower in his presence!!

Yes...great guy

cali kid wrote:

Go over to 3T and bash baliha'i and see what happens with the post!! The owner is a great guy but it who is paying to sponser that shields any bad info! think we all know the guy that runs the place and nobody gets away with questioning any sponsership brand!! You will cower in his presence!!

Which guy is a "great guy"? The BaliHa'i owner or the 3T owner

Terrific points Ron and the rest of you too ! It's really excellent to have vendors
join a watch forum and have some good conversations about watches or the hobby
in general !..However, if a watch company is actually a sponser then there seems
to be a bias that may or may not be hidden..but is often involved. Then it seems
things can get a little cloudy and integrity might go out the window. The freedom
to talk openly really is one of THE most important aspects of a watch forum IMHO !
So in the end..it's up to the members of various forums to decide what they like.
At some point many may see what we are saying..and that would be good !

barnbuilder1 wrote:

I was reading at DWC about a Doxa thread being locked at wus, http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=347850 and got me thinking of how WG's has evolved and there sponsers, since I have been there to see that progression of sponsership. Blogs on watch reviews may also fit into this same category. but how can you really have honest reviews and discussion to inform the buyer of any particular brand when this is what most forums engage in? As an example, I don't think the Seiko threads are shut down from full and open discussion looked over by the ceo of that company.

Just plain wrong! shame on any forum who insults our intelligence to speak freely!

I agree this type of paid fora sponsorship (post if you have something nice to say.. otherwise screwed you) defeats the basic intent, which is openly and freely agree or disagree on taste, specs and or performance in general ... money talks bullshit walks....IMHO

I generally don't participate when the agenda is to make $. It really just means that the place is boring and all about an environment void of true discussion.

Docrwm wrote:

cali kid wrote:

Go over to 3T and bash baliha'i and see what happens with the post!! The owner is a great guy but it who is is paying to sponser that shields any bad info! think we all know the guy that runs the place and nobody gets away with questioning any sponsership brand!! You will cower in his presence!!

Which guy is a "great guy"? The BaliHa'i owner or the 3T owner

Baliha'i owner is a good guy!! We all know what Oscar is all about!!

cali kid wrote:

Docrwm wrote:

cali kid wrote:

Go over to 3T and bash baliha'i and see what happens with the post!! The owner is a great guy but it who is is paying to sponser that shields any bad info! think we all know the guy that runs the place and nobody gets away with questioning any sponsership brand!! You will cower in his presence!!

Which guy is a "great guy"? The BaliHa'i owner or the 3T owner

Baliha'i owner is a good guy!! We all know what Oscar is all about!!

Check mate...

I think there is a difference between sponsorship and censorship...one that get crossed at some other forums. It sucks.

I agree Doc. That's why I used the term "venue". The others are refering to the owner of 3T with a bit of disdain. I guess BaliHa'i has a forum over there. I wouldn't know, I cant get in. I'm also sure like his Orsa forums, things are pretty one-sided. I was referring to the BaliHa's owners Facebook page. Very open and inviting.

cali kid wrote:

Docrwm wrote:

cali kid wrote:

Go over to 3T and bash baliha'i and see what happens with the post!! The owner is a great guy but it who is is paying to sponser that shields any bad info! think we all know the guy that runs the place and nobody gets away with questioning any sponsership brand!! You will cower in his presence!!

Which guy is a "great guy"? The BaliHa'i owner or the 3T owner

Baliha'i owner is a good guy!! We all know what Oscar is all about!!

Just checking I'd hate to have to refer this to AH - or worse yet, the Super Secret Mod Andrema.

Docrwm wrote:

cali kid wrote:

Docrwm wrote:

cali kid wrote:

Go over to 3T and bash baliha'i and see what happens with the post!! The owner is a great guy but it who is is paying to sponser that shields any bad info! think we all know the guy that runs the place and nobody gets away with questioning any sponsership brand!! You will cower in his presence!!

Which guy is a "great guy"? The BaliHa'i owner or the 3T owner

Baliha'i owner is a good guy!! We all know what Oscar is all about!!

Just checking I'd hate to have to refer this to AH - or worse yet, the Super Secret Mod Andrema.

wouldnt want either on my bad side!! But i do feel sorry for micro owners who get tied up with sponsership on 3T, could cause them to lose more sales than they make!!

As a media insider, I can tell you it takes big balls to go against the wishes of a sponsor/advertiser, particularly in harsh economic times. Even corporate media giants aren't immune to this kind of pressure when it comes to news and programming decisions. Why would a tiny watch forum be any different.
But we as horologists - and as consumers - should vote with OUR wallets. Avoid any forum, network, magazine or newspaper that claims to be unbiased and caves to sponsor/advertiser pressure. Eventually, they'll get the message.
Do you really think the ShopNBC/Invicta "Ponzi Pyramid" will last forever?

Great post!!

I can see where forums try to kiss plenty of sponsor ass. Probably the most disappointing is a forum that was always claimed to be independent and had no financial ties to a certain watch company. Then later it is discovered that financial ties is a major understatement...in fact they are the majority if not all of the backing for the cult site.

Sites with sposors should simply refer to themselves as "places to praise a product"...calling themselves "discussion forums" is a joke.

I particularly like the heavily sponsored fora that also look to the members to become paying "patrons" just to add a little more to the pot.

Of course it ain't cheap keeping a kingly smile so white.

watchcollector1968 wrote:

I can see where forums try to kiss plenty of sponsor ass. Probably the most disappointing is a forum that was always claimed to be independent and had no financial ties to a certain watch company. Then later it is discovered that financial ties is a major understatement...in fact they are the majority if not all of the backing for the cult site.

Sites with sposors should simply refer to themselves as "places to praise a product"...calling themselves "discussion forums" is a joke.

This is the main reason most of the bigger watch companies dont sponser or even advertise in a forum!! You will find alot of them are unofficial brand forums like rolex, breitling or panerai but they want nothing to do the the forums as a watch brand!! Invicta on the other hand runs their sales thru a forum so there can only be so much bad talk about the brand before threads end up deleted and people end up banned!

foghorn wrote:

I particularly like the heavily sponsored fora that also look to the members to become paying "patrons" just to add a little more to the pot.

Of course it ain't cheap keeping a kingly smile so white.

...or the Bimmer and Rollie's polished...

cali kid wrote:

Great post!!

+1

watch companies are out to make money and there is nothing wrong with that. Nothing bad with debunking bad information and setting the facts out about their product, especially for smaller companies who are establishing their name in the industry. Under that layer of fact is opinion and preference of the buyer who frequents the forum giving and getting information to others, this is what needs to be open and not stifled by forums and mods with an agenda, money or power. Let the watch take what's thrown at it.

I dont mind participating in a sponsored forum as long as I know who is sponsoring. If the BS gets too much I can leave, but some sponsored forums get along alright.

One sponsored forum bothers me because every time the owner does a watch review he sends it out to everyone as a PM. I don't trust his judgement in the first place, but that is a different matter. If he is going to write a review it belongs in a forum post under "Sponsored Review", not as a PM as though his biased opinion is important enough to spam me with PM.

I'd actually prefer to join a forum owned and operated by the manufacturer, where the manufacturer actually participates. That is far better than one that is just supported by sponsorship dollars. If I join a forum owned by the manufacturer I want to read accurate information direct from the source.

I guess in short I don't mind a biased forum, as long as there is open honesty about it.

barnbuilder1 wrote:

watch companies are out to make money and there is nothing wrong with that. Nothing bad with debunking bad information and setting the facts out about their product, especially for smaller companies who are establishing their name in the industry. Under that layer of fact is opinion and preference of the buyer who frequents the forum giving and getting information to others, this is what needs to be open and not stifled by forums and mods with an agenda, money or power. Let the watch take what's thrown at it.

Nail on the head.... Build a great watch, be honest about where the parts come from and support it with great service. good price wouldnt hurt!!

Anomaly wrote:

People wanna start making some "easy money" or get a "free watch" for having a brand's banner on their site...

This site isn't ETHICS 101, but IMO, is a free watch or $X amount of dollars worth the INTEGRITY of the site?

As soon as we have a Breitling or a Seiko or a G-shock banner here and are compensated for it in any fashion, then those who don't necessarily hold a brand in the same esteem as the site might for having taken on their banner, then that person loses their ability to even RESPECTFULLY express their true feelings about a brand because that might cost the site owner some money or a free watch...

I REFUSE to pimp out my hobby for my personal gain, not sure many other sites can make that claim...

How 'bout a Panny, big boy?

boscoe wrote:

As a media insider, I can tell you it takes big balls to go against the wishes of a sponsor/advertiser, particularly in harsh economic times. Even corporate media giants aren't immune to this kind of pressure when it comes to news and programming decisions. Why would a tiny watch forum be any different.
But we as horologists - and as consumers - should vote with OUR wallets. Avoid any forum, network, magazine or newspaper that claims to be unbiased and caves to sponsor/advertiser pressure. Eventually, they'll get the message.
Do you really think the ShopNBC/Invicta "Ponzi Pyramid" will last forever?

Well stated Dan.